Dake Bible Discussion BoardWords mean something.

General Discussion Forum devoted to the study of God's Word in Honor of Finis J. Dake.
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Hill Top
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Re: Words mean something.

Post by Hill Top »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:07 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:56 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:06 am
Hill Top wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:00 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:06 pm
Agreed.

P.S. I, also agree that both the Calvinists and Arminians are right about some things and wrong about others.
Do their errors on some things invalidate them in total?
For me, their error cuts them off entirely.
It is senseless to seek truth among liars.
No. Their errors do not invalidate them in total.
As to seeking the truth among liars... Paul found it amongst them. See Titus 1:12.
Good catch!
Of course, Paul's words affirming the "saying", is what makes it true...to me.
Are you saying that the saying would not have been true if Paul hadn't affirmed it?
If so, that is very strange.
If Paul had not mentioned it, I would never have heard of it.



Grandfather
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Re: Words mean something.

Post by Grandfather »

Hill Top wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:20 pm
If Paul had not mentioned it, I would never have heard of it.
Can you clarify what you mean by this statement? Obviously, if Paul had not said a lot of things we might not have known about them. For example we might never have known about the trials he went through if he had not listed them. If he never mentioned his years in the wilderness before going to Jerusalem, we may have never known about that. Evidently you mean something more?

What is it you mean in regards to the statement Paul referenced?

An interesting note..."One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies."

Does anyone notice the self-contradictory statement in the above sentence? If "one of themselves" says they "are always liars", then is he lying when makes that statement?



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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: Words mean something.

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Grandfather wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:58 pm
An interesting note..."One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies."

Does anyone notice the self-contradictory statement in the above sentence? If "one of themselves" says they "are always liars", then is he lying when makes that statement?
Yes, I noticed. It's a head scratcher, to me.


"In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him."
— St. Peter the Apostle, Acts 10:34-35 New King James Version

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Hill Top
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
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Re: Words mean something.

Post by Hill Top »

Grandfather wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:58 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:20 pm
If Paul had not mentioned it, I would never have heard of it.
Can you clarify what you mean by this statement?
Without Paul's writings, the truth or untruth of the matter is a moot point.
Obviously, if Paul had not said a lot of things we might not have known about them. For example we might never have known about the trials he went through if he had not listed them. If he never mentioned his years in the wilderness before going to Jerusalem, we may have never known about that. Evidently you mean something more?
But we did have non-liars writing of, and forwarding, the truth to us.
Had that news come from non-Christian sources I would have doubted them.
What is it you mean in regards to the statement Paul referenced?
Paul is the one who decided it was true, and I believe him ahead of any Jewish prophets. (from Titus 1:12)
As I previously posted, I discount everything liars tell me.
An interesting note..."One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies."
Personally, I would not have believed "them of the circumcision".
But Paul did, and I believe him.
Does anyone notice the self-contradictory statement in the above sentence? If "one of themselves" says they "are always liars", then is he lying when makes that statement?
The crux of the matter is "who is the source", of what I believe.
So, in regard to this thread, if Paul taught Arminiamism, or the other choice, (I can't remember what it was), I would believe it. But because it comes from non-believers, I discount it.



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branham1965
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Re: Words mean something.

Post by branham1965 »

Saint Paul did it also in Acts 17:22-34.

Verse 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being,AS ALSO SOME OF YOUR OWN POETS HAVE SAID 'For we are also His offspring.' Therefore since we are the offspring of God ,we ought not to think that the Divine Nature (GODHEAD KJV) is like gold or silver or stone,something shaped by art and man's devising." NKJV

+weights
Last edited by branham1965 on Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:58 am, edited 1 time in total.



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luchnia
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Re: Words mean something.

Post by luchnia »

Hill Top wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:33 pm
Paul is the one who decided it was true, and I believe him ahead of any Jewish prophets. (from Titus 1:12)
As I previously posted, I discount everything liars tell me.
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:33 pm
The crux of the matter is "who is the source", of what I believe.
You have made extremely important points here. It is interesting that you do not agree with much of what Paul taught, as has been shown constantly on the forum, yet you state you believe him. This fact alone would make certain parts of what Paul taught lies in what you are implying about liars and truth tellers.

Who is the source of what you believe? To discount everything liars tell you would mean you would know who is lying to you by some sort of criteria you have set forth. I know of no case that a man does not have at least some criteria for what he selects as truth.

The people in your circle that have taught you things in much of your doctrines, how do you determine they are truth tellers or liars? Since their truth appears to be your standard, then folks on this forum that teach against some of your doctrines are liars, or partial liars.


Word up!

Grandfather
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Re: Words mean something.

Post by Grandfather »

Hill Top wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:33 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:58 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:20 pm
If Paul had not mentioned it, I would never have heard of it.
Can you clarify what you mean by this statement?
As I previously posted, I discount everything liars tell me.
I do not recall Paul teaching about mathematics? Do you believe it that discipline? I'm pretty sure there are some liars in that field as well, do we discount mathematics as being true?

I do not recall Paul, or any of the other Apostles or Prophets, teaching about gravity? Again I'm pretty sure there are some liars in the area of science as well, do we refuse to accept gravity is true?

I hope that the ridiculousness of the above questions show that you made a very broad and sweeping statement that cannot be true in many areas.

In conclusion, I would like clarification on this statement
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:33 pm
But Paul did, and I believe him.
From the way it is worded, it appears that you are not persuaded the statement it true, but you accept it is true because Paul did. This is what is referred to as "second hand" truth. It indicates that you do not believe the statement to be valid (true) on your own, but you only accept it as true because someone else does. Indicating further that your truth comes to you from other sources besides the god given reasoning skills that you have. Is this your position?



Hill Top
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Re: Words mean something.

Post by Hill Top »

branham1965 wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:56 am
Saint Paul did it also in Acts 17:22-34.

Verse 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being,AS ALSO SOME OF YOUR OWN POETS HAVE SAID 'For we are also His offspring.' Therefore since we are the offspring of God ,we ought not to think that the Divine Nature (GODHEAD KJV) is like gold or silver or stone,something shaped by art and man's devising." NKJV

+weights
Paul used the words of unbelievers to suit the doctrine he was presenting.
It wasn't the unbelievers who get the credit, but Paul, by the power of the Holy Ghost.



Hill Top
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Re: Words mean something.

Post by Hill Top »

luchnia wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:03 am
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:33 pm
Paul is the one who decided it was true, and I believe him ahead of any Jewish prophets. (from Titus 1:12)
As I previously posted, I discount everything liars tell me.
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:33 pm
The crux of the matter is "who is the source", of what I believe.
You have made extremely important points here. It is interesting that you do not agree with much of what Paul taught, as has been shown constantly on the forum, yet you state you believe him. This fact alone would make certain parts of what Paul taught lies in what you are implying about liars and truth tellers.
As I wrote earlier, you have to consider the source.
Either of what Paul said or Calvinists.
Who is the source of what you believe? To discount everything liars tell you would mean you would know who is lying to you by some sort of criteria you have set forth. I know of no case that a man does not have at least some criteria for what he selects as truth.

God is the source of what I believe.
My criteria is His word.
The people in your circle that have taught you things in much of your doctrines, how do you determine they are truth tellers or liars? Since their truth appears to be your standard, then folks on this forum that teach against some of your doctrines are liars, or partial liars.
I have watched the "folks in my circle" for many years, and know they adhere to the teachings I have brought to you.
The folks who preach against the doctrine which is according to Godliness will be judged at the appropriate times by the Word.
I'm not going to do it now.



Hill Top
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Re: Words mean something.

Post by Hill Top »

Grandfather wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:46 am
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:33 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:58 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:20 pm
If Paul had not mentioned it, I would never have heard of it.
Can you clarify what you mean by this statement?
As I previously posted, I discount everything liars tell me.
I do not recall Paul teaching about mathematics? Do you believe it that discipline? I'm pretty sure there are some liars in that field as well, do we discount mathematics as being true?
It would indeed matter if math had any thing to do with Godliness.
But it doesn't.
I do not recall Paul, or any of the other Apostles or Prophets, teaching about gravity? Again I'm pretty sure there are some liars in the area of science as well, do we refuse to accept gravity is true?
I bet there is something about gravity in the bible.
Given enough time it could be found.
I hope that the ridiculousness of the above questions show that you made a very broad and sweeping statement that cannot be true in many areas.
If gravity or math could influence someone's salvation, it would matter.
But they don't.
In conclusion, I would like clarification on this statement
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:33 pm
But Paul did, and I believe him.
From the way it is worded, it appears that you are not persuaded the statement it true, but you accept it is true because Paul did. This is what is referred to as "second hand" truth. It indicates that you do not believe the statement to be valid (true) on your own, but you only accept it as true because someone else does. Indicating further that your truth comes to you from other sources besides the god given reasoning skills that you have. Is this your position?
I'll accept the words of someone with the gift of the Holy Ghost any time.
Why would I accept as true anything from liars?
How can you accept the words of the unrighteous as true?
I don't accept something as true "on my own" if a man of God delivers it to me.



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