Dake Bible Discussion BoardWhat is "SIN"

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luchnia
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Re: What is "SIN"

Post by luchnia »

Grandfather wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:55 pm
Oh, if God doesn't hold children for this "sins of mistakes" why do you assume he holds you accountable for them?
I think you may be misunderstanding me. I don't agree with sins of mistakes. That is your view. I don't assume He holds me accountable for my mistakes. Sins are different. You consider them the same so in your understanding you would be held accountable for your mistakes and be doomed to eternal separation from God if you do not repent and forsake such.

If you stub your toe or scrape your knee, you will need to repent of the evil you have done and forsake doing those things again. At least that is how I perceive your point of view here.


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luchnia
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Re: What is "SIN"

Post by luchnia »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:10 pm
Ignorance doesn't excuse wrong doing. But, ignorance can be a factor in whether mercy might be extended for such wrong doing.
I agree in part - in my opinion not all things done in ignorance are wrong doing. We are all ignorant and make a variety of mistakes. We are ignorant about different things and we do different things that have various outcomes. What I may be ignorant about, you may not be and the opposite holds true as well.

I was ignorant and made a mistake in smashing my finger the other day because it could have possibly been avoided had I done things differently, or had foreknowledge, however it was not wrong doing and did not come from evil intent or an evil spirit.

I did harm to myself from a series of actions. I did not intend to harm myself nor see evil in it in any degree. This ignorance had nothing to do with wrong doing, so there is nothing to be excused of.


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macca
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Re: What is "SIN"

Post by macca »

luchnia wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:15 am
macca wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:20 pm
luchnia wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:54 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:29 pm
Ironman wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:10 pm
Where in Scripture does God command pitchers must not throw dozens of "mistaken" balls every night?
I don't think there's an explicit command, but it is implicit in the definition of sin, missing the mark. Any ball thrown shy of perfection misses the mark of perfection. Furthermore, most pitchers aren't playing ball to glorify God. And, just as the plowing of the wicked is sin, so is the ball playing of the wicked.
Your post made me think of a number of things. How do we determine which person playing ball is wicked? Also, how to you determine if ball playing does not glorify God? Is it because of the nature of playing ball? Is it evil period?

Here is another question, does posting on this forum glorify God? Are we doing evil because we partake of posting on these discussion points? How are they glorifying God? We make many mistakes here.

I agree the plowing of the wicked is sin, but that is the wicked plowing and not the righteous plowing. Whatever the wicked does would likely be sin, because they are wicked. They follow satan and sin.

What if the righteous man makes a mistake and plows a crooked row? He may look at re-plowing the row, or he may look at it later after the crop is coming up and say to himself, how did I get that row so crooked? The crooked row does not make him evil.

Consider the mistake Paul made by not doing what the Spirit told him, yet, nothing indicates he was wicked because of it. The Spirit actually came to him later as needed.

I think we should pause and ponder the spirit and nature of sin in the wicked. Dake had interesting notes that he actually believed sin was a spirit. I don't recall the note at the moment, but certainly made it interesting study.




Hello Brother Luchina.....What mistake was it that Paul made ??????????
I think it is in Acts 21, but not exactly sure. He went where he was told not to go. I would call it disobedience to the Spirit maybe, but some of the later events could be considered mistakes because of his choice. The interesting thing was the Holy Spirit later joined him.

I would not so much call it a mistake so much a choice to do something you were told not to do, but I am sure some would see it differently and would clearly say it was a mistake for Paul to go there. The consequences of that action resulted in a series of events which I suppose those could be considered as mistakes.

As in my examples of mistakes, I am not aware they will happen until they do. I simply cannot buy into a mistakenly stubbed toe or a scraped finger, as a sin, but to each his own.


Thankyou brother, I thought that would be the case...



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Re: What is "SIN"

Post by Hill Top »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:43 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:20 pm
It is written..."Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled." (Titus 1:15)
Purity itself is a faithful glorification of God.
Anything done by the pure glorifies God...even their misspellings and stubbings.
I would dread a life where I considered misspelling a word or stubbing my toe as sinful.
It would be a life of OT self-law keeping.
I say "self"-law because the NT is freed from the Law of Moses.
Sounds like you're working hard to justify sin and call it righteousness.
Far from it.
But calling locking oneself out of a house isn't a sin.
Neither is stubbing a toe.

That would result in a religion of paralyzed inaction.



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Re: What is "SIN"

Post by Hill Top »

luchnia wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:48 pm
The good thing is that perfection does not negate fallibility, or what we may define as mistakes or errors. Fallibility is part of perfection.

Case in point, God created man and repented because of the evil man did. Jesus was temped in every way as a man. He could have prevented temptation, but did not. Man changed God's mind. There are many, many examples in God's word.

Man is not a machine, just as God is not a machine. Sin works by one's choice of whom he will serve as Paul indicated. God set the baseline for what is right.
Good post.
Perfection in obedience to God does not translate to a 300 score every time you go bowling.
Neither does it equate to perfect spelling or solving quadratic equations.



Hill Top
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Re: What is "SIN"

Post by Hill Top »

Grandfather wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:13 pm
luchnia wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:54 pm
I think we should pause and ponder the spirit and nature of sin in the wicked. Dake had interesting notes that he actually believed sin was a spirit. I don't recall the note at the moment, but certainly made it interesting study.
The Bible uses various terms to describe missing the mark of God's standard. SIN, TREPASS, INIQUITY, WICKEDNESS are some of the more common ones used. The Bible also differentiates between things done in ignorance, by intention, and by accident. Jesus even speaks of "weightier portions" of the Law, indicating that some things rank differently than others.

I write this to point out that God sets the standard and anything that misses His standard is SIN. (period, end of discussion) How much it misses that standard and why it misses that standard is what separates the degree of trespass, iniquity, wicknessness, etc. For example if I walked past you and you accidentily tripped me, that would be wrong, but it was an accident, unintentional. Now, if you thought it would simply be "fun" to what me trip and fall, perhaps that would be call mischief. Again, if you planned to make me trip and fall, so I would not arrive at my destination on time, maybe that would iniquity. But if your plan to make me fall was so that I would injure myself and endanger my life, that might be wickedness.

All were sinful, but not all would rise to the degree of what we would call wicked.
Please show me "His standard" for locking yourself out of the house.

BTW, all sin is wickedness.



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Re: What is "SIN"

Post by Grandfather »

Hill Top wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:13 pm
BTW, all sin is wickedness.
I would disagree. Scripture uses them differently.

All wickedness is indeed sin... all sins pay the same wage...



Hill Top
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Re: What is "SIN"

Post by Hill Top »

Grandfather wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:16 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:13 pm
BTW, all sin is wickedness.
I would disagree. Scripture uses them differently.

All wickedness is indeed sin... all sins pay the same wage...
So a murdering child killer gets the same punishment as some one who locks their keys in the car?
If one can't differentiate between the two, they deserve the outcome they will have accused themselves of being worthy of.

By referring to "lock outs" as sin, you make it impossible to obey Jesus' command in Matt 5:48.
He doesn't command the impossible.
Your definition of sin as "missed the mark" needs refinement.



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Re: What is "SIN"

Post by Grandfather »

Hill Top wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:27 pm
Your definition of sin as "missed the mark" needs refinement.
Sorry, that is the biblical definition of the word.

Here is what Vine's has to say: Sin--is, lit., "a missing of the mark,"

Wikapedia says this:Christian hamartiology (from Greek: ἁμαρτία, hamartia, "missing the mark, error" and -λογια, -logia, "study"), a branch of Christian theology which is the study of sin, describes sin as an act of offence against God by despising His persons and Christian biblical law, and by injuring others.

I'll let you do your research and show where my definition is incorrect.



Hill Top
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Re: What is "SIN"

Post by Hill Top »

Grandfather wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:45 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:27 pm
Your definition of sin as "missed the mark" needs refinement.
Sorry, that is the biblical definition of the word.

Here is what Vine's has to say: Sin--is, lit., "a missing of the mark,"

Wikapedia says this:Christian hamartiology (from Greek: ἁμαρτία, hamartia, "missing the mark, error" and -λογια, -logia, "study"), a branch of Christian theology which is the study of sin, describes sin as an act of offence against God by despising His persons and Christian biblical law, and by injuring others.

I'll let you do your research and show where my definition is incorrect.
When you use "miss the mark" as your definition of sin, you infer that one is "aiming at" not losing their keys under the command of, in this case, God.
But if there is no command not to lose your keys, there was no "mark" to miss.
If God gave us no command to not stub our toes, what "mark" have we missed if we do stub a toe?
Are you now invoking another book of the Law in order to quantify sin?
Are you abandoning grace in favor of a list of commandments that can't make us perfect after that was already
tried and failed?

It was written..."be ye "THEREFORE" perfect..."
Does that not translate to..."because this is what was really commanded of God, do it."
Here is the Mirriam-Webster definition of "therefore...
Definition of therefore
1 a: for that reason : CONSEQUENTLY
b: because of that
c: on that ground
2: to that end.
"Be ye on those grounds, for that reason, to that end, perfect..."
What "grounds"?
The sermon on the mount's remarks.



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