Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ What is "SIN"

[Grandfather]

I've taken the liberty to spin this off into it's own discussion.

Based on what is below, let us attempt to define what is sin and what isn't.

My mistake wasn't in order to lead anyone into sin.
God sees the perfect as perfect, seeing as He cannot lie.

Ah, while the INTENTION you had while making this mistake was one thing, can you be sure the results were the same as the intention? One of the things you fail to grasp is that our “mistakes,” no matter how well-intended, can (and often do) have unintended consequences. And you are responsible for those consequences because they have their origin in your mistake.

Which is why even “honest” and “good intended” mistakes are still SIN.

Have you any scriptures to back-up your POV?

All wrong doing is sin. 1 John 5:17

So it is a sin when you knot up a shoe lace...got it.
Locking yourself out of the house is a sin.
An unbalanced check book is a sin.
I'm glad I live in the NT wherein such legalism is refuted.
It is written..."Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled." (Titus 1:15)
Is it a sin for you to lock yourself out of the house?

[Grandfather]

In the above post there is a disagreement on what is SIN.

The word is used as both a NOUN (ie person, place, or thing. In this case a "thing") and a VERB (an action or a state of being)

The word for SIN is translated into several different words throughout scripture. The root meaning is to miss the mark, to be in error, to have fault. (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words)

There are several "indentifiers" (some scholars do not call them definitions in the strict conntation of the word definitions.)

John writes that all unrighteousness is sin. (1 John 5:17)
Paul calls everything done without faith as sin. (Romans 14:23)
James writes that if you know to do good and do not do it then it is sin. (James 4:17)
Proverb 23:7 says as a man thinks in his heart, so is he. So thinking and not necessarily acting on those thoughts can be sin.
Jesus reiterates that theme in Matt 5:28

I could continue, but time will not allow at this moment. However, notice a constant here. Things are either SIN or RIGHTEOUS, there is no middle ground of "neutral". When things are not done in faith, it is a SIN. (Don't argue with me, take it up with Paul.) If you know to do something good (like researching a topic) and you don't do it good, it is a sin. (Take it us with James not me.)

So, are the "mistakes" that HIlltop lists sins? Untied shoe, improperly balance checkbook, locking yourself out of the house? What does the Word of God say? I can tell you what it does not say... it does not speak of a neutral ground. It does not speak of re-labeling an action as a mistake to avoid calling it a sin. Those are things men do in order to avoid admitting they are indeed fallen creatures in need of a Savior. Those are actions of men to avoid humbling themselves before a perfect God and acknowledge they are not perfect yet. (btw - that is call PRIDE, which is also called sin in the Scriptures.)

[Grandfather]

I'm glad I live in the NT wherein such legalism is refuted.

What? Where did I proclaim "legalism"? Legalism would imply a belief system that requires me to be perfect and adhere to all the regulations and laws of scripture. I have not made such a claim, but I know someone that has.

What I proclaim is that I am saved by GRACE through FAITH in the Son of God. That my believing in, trusting on, and relance on HIM is counted as righteousness. I am not trusting in my flesh, I began this walk in the spirit I surely cannot finish it by trusting in the flesh to adhere to any symbolance of legalism.

If that sounds like legalism, then perhaps you should state another thread to prompt that discussion. What I am speaking of is GRACE, God endless grace that covers all my sins, yes even the sins of an unbalanced checkbook, a misspelled word (or two or three hundred on them) I do not trust in my ability to keep the law, I trust in his sacrifice that freed me from Law and its penalty.

[Hill Top]

I'm glad I live in the NT wherein such legalism is refuted.

What? Where did I proclaim "legalism"? Legalism would imply a belief system that requires me to be perfect and adhere to all the regulations and laws of scripture. I have not made such a claim, but I know someone that has.

Someone who imply s that locking yourself out of the house is sin?
Or not doing ten hours of research when five minutes seemed sufficient to answer a question?

What I proclaim is that I am saved by GRACE through FAITH in the Son of God. That my believing in, trusting on, and reliance on HIM is counted as righteousness. I am not trusting in my flesh, I began this walk in the spirit I surely cannot finish it by trusting in the flesh to adhere to any symbolance of legalism.

If that sounds like legalism, then perhaps you should state another thread to prompt that discussion. What I am speaking of is GRACE, God endless grace that covers all my sins, yes even the sins of an unbalanced checkbook, a misspelled word (or two or three hundred on them) I do not trust in my ability to keep the law, I trust in his sacrifice that freed me from Law and its penalty.

Have you ever thought about extending that "grace" to others?

[bibleman]

How about this sin is doing what God said don't do and/or sin is not doing what God said to do!

Isn't that pretty simple?

[Grandfather]

How about this sin is doing what God said don't do and/or sin is not doing what God said to do!

Isn't that pretty simple?

As a general statement I do not have a problem with that. However, I believe the discussion is more on a specific level. For example does God say specifically who to marry? Or does he give strong guidelines (not suggestions, but guidelines)? Does God rule out the possibility that there may be more than one person that meets those guidelines?

Again, in the general sense, I agree with your description.

[Grandfather]

I'm glad I live in the NT wherein such legalism is refuted.

What? Where did I proclaim "legalism"? Legalism would imply a belief system that requires me to be perfect and adhere to all the regulations and laws of scripture. I have not made such a claim, but I know someone that has.

Someone who imply s that locking yourself out of the house is sin?
Or not doing ten hours of research when five minutes seemed sufficient to answer a question?

So, at what level does defining what is sin become legalism? For example I assume you would say that adultery is a sin? Lying and Cheating would be a sin? Covetiveness? Greed? Lust? Envy? Hatred? At what point does adding more items to the list move into legalism? Was Paul's list in Gal 5 legalism? How about his list in 1 Cor 6?

Paul wrote in I Cor 10 to do ALL things to the glory of God. I do not think locking yourself out of the house is done to the glory of God. (At least not as a general rule, there may be an exception that I am not aware of.) I do not think poor research about the Word of God brings glory to God. (I do not care if it is 5 minutes, 5 hours, or 5 years, poor research is poor research!)

My having a much larger definition of what constitues "SIN" is not legalism, it is simply a definition of SIN. However devising a system that labels some sins as "mistakes" or "errors" while calling for the need of repentance of others does fit what would commonly be called as legalism.

[Grandfather]

...What I am speaking of is GRACE, God endless grace that covers all my sins, yes even the sins of an unbalanced checkbook, a misspelled word (or two or three hundred on them) I do not trust in my ability to keep the law, I trust in his sacrifice that freed me from Law and its penalty.

Have you ever thought about extending that "grace" to others?

What makes you say that I don't? It was offered freely to me and I extend it freely to others. But extending grace does not make sin any less sinful. It would be the opposite of grace if it let you stay mired in sin.

[Grandfather]

MOVED FROM THE "PERFECT" THREAD

The KJV word in 1 John 5:17 for "wrong doing" is "unrighteousness".
Do you hold that mistakes, even in biblical research, are unrighteous?

Just this morning I read this from 1 Sam 16:7..."...for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart."
Mistakes are not mistakes if the heart is aiming to divert from the truth or otherwise steer men in a wrong direction.
They are on purpose.
However, mistakes due to, among other things, insufficient information, are just mistakes.

Oh, indeed 1 Sam 16 applies.
But first, let us examine your reasoning a little closer. " mistakes due to, among other things, insufficient information, are just mistakes." Really? Do you have scripture to support this idea? 1 Sam 16 does not! It merely says that the Lord looks on the heart. It does not say that the "mistakes" are simply "mistakes." Suppose someone does research on a topic and arrives at a conclusion that he thought was correct. Now someone else takes this conclusion and acts on it, but those acts are unsafe or ungodly. Later, it is discovered the research was faulty. The original research used insufficient information that he did not verify his sources. Is it just a "mistake," or does he bear some culpability in the actions of those that followed the faulty conclusion?

When God looked at the heart of David vs. that of Saul, what did God see? David was a man of war; he committed adultery and murder. He never said things were simply a "mistake." Instead, David understood the love of the sovereign God, a love that covers many sins, not that called them mistakes.

So, when God sees the heart of a man, bent on serving Him, then those "mistakes" are still sin, but they are forgiven "mistakes" just as sin is forgiven, by the grace of God.

[Spiritblade Disciple]

I believe that errors are sins.

The first mention of the word "error" that I can find in the Bible is here:

2 Samuel 6:6-7 New King James Version
And when they came to Nachon's threshing floor, Uzzah put out his hand to the ark of God and took hold of it, for the oxen stumbled. Then the anger of the LORD was aroused against Uzzah, and God struck him there for his error; and he died there by the ark of God.

Errors are punishable by death. The wages of sin is death.

Is there any biblical reason to think that errors are not sins?