Dake Bible Discussion BoardWhat do you think of this?

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Hill Top
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Re: What do you think of this?

Post by Hill Top »

branham1965 wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:06 am
NO ONE in any of the major Churches teach sinless perfection.Not one.
What does that say about your "major churches"?
The one thing they all do have in common is that they are still the subjects of..."Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:" (Eph 2:2)
Only the fringes go to extremes about sinless perfection(and many other odd ball doctrines)
Is obedience to God really an "odd-ball doctrine"?
Jesus died for our past sins, and to allow us the opportunity of rebirth of God's seed.
It was Adam's seed that allowed sin to reign on earth.
Every preacher i know of who taught it has had a major public fall.
There are some who teach without learning.
They are the ones from 2 Peter 2:19..."While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage."
NONE of the Church Fathers taught it.The Bible does not teach it.
Jesus taught it..."Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48)
Paul taught it...“Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.” (Rom. 6:6-7)
And..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
John taught it...“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” (1 John 1:7)
And...“We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.” (1 John 5:18)
Peter taught it...“Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:" (2 Peter 1:10)
And..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
Are they not the "church founders" you speak of?
It comes from the PRIDE of fallen man who does not want to bow the knees and acknowledge his/her own exceeding sinfulness his/her own utter helplessness and utter hopelessness and his/her complete need for the Lord Jesus Christ.
"JESUS PAID IT ALL,ALL TO HIM I OWE ,SIN HAD LEFT A CRIMSON STAIN ,HE WASHED IT WHITE AS SNOW."
You are confusing righteousness for sin.
It is the sinful, rebellious, haters of God that won't "bow the knee".
Those who do remain obedient, keep that knee bent till they are called home to God.



Hill Top wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:37 pm
I just got a one month vacation from a different "Christian Forum".
Why?
Because I was discussing sinless perfection, which was against their rules.
Do you all think that such a rule is..."Christian"?
BTW, I had over three thousand posts there, over a couple of years.
I usually 'couched' my mentioning of sinless perfection with innuendos, synonyms, and invitations to go to PM ing.
I knew their rules, but as something like declaring the actions of God are not legislated against from heaven, I was forced to skirt them.
Comments?
[/quote]



Hill Top
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Re: What do you think of this?

Post by Hill Top »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:59 am
Pastor Joey Faust, author of The Rod: Will God Spare It?: An Exhaustive Study of Temporary Punishment for Christians, was recently on Dr. Kent Hovind's Youtube broadcast. Faust presented some of his understanding of a middle road between lawless once saved always saved and conditional security (which some call sinless perfection). Hovind said that although he didn't like what Faust had to say, he could not refute it. Faust claims that many famous and not so famous Christians throughout the past 2,000 years have shared or somewhat shared this view. His book gives quotations from many of them as well as over 1,000 scripture references.

I have read Faust's book at least twice, but had almost forgotten about it until seeing this broadcast.

If you take the time to listen, please let me know your thoughts.
I listened to most of the presentation, and the guy has replaced heaven with the 1000 year kingdom.
He infers that the only thing we can lose by unfaithfulness is time in the millennial kingdom, instead of salvation itself.
He is the epitome of 2 Peter 2:19..."While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage."

Instead of him pitting light against darkness, he rationalized shades of grey.



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branham1965
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Re: What do you think of this?

Post by branham1965 »

Phil,
I am not saying that Christians should ever sin,miss the mark or fail God or not have the Lord's fear in them see Jeremiah 2:19.

Believers in both Testaments BACKSLID FAILED THE LORD AND MISSED THE MARK.
They had to really repent and beg for God's forgiveness and mercy See Isaiah 55:7 and Proverbs 28:13.
I notice listening to Reverend Dake on youtube i can tell he was a fine Pastor.He tells his listeners that they need to " behave themselves" but he does not butcher his hearers.He gives them hope. Man i appreciated his spirit.

+cross
Last edited by branham1965 on Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:38 am, edited 1 time in total.



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luchnia
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Re: What do you think of this?

Post by luchnia »

branham1965 wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:06 am
NO ONE in any of the major Churches teach sinless perfection.Not one.

Only the fringes go to extremes about sinless perfection(and many other odd ball doctrines)
Every preacher i know of who taught it has had a major public fall.

NONE of the Church Fathers taught it.The Bible does not teach it.

It comes from the PRIDE of fallen man who does not want to bow the knees and acknowledge his/her own exceeding sinfulness his/her own utter helplessness and utter hopelessness and his/her complete need for the Lord Jesus Christ.

"JESUS PAID IT ALL,ALL TO HIM I OWE ,SIN HAD LEFT A CRIMSON STAIN ,HE WASHED IT WHITE AS SNOW."



Hill Top wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:37 pm
I just got a one month vacation from a different "Christian Forum".
Why?
Because I was discussing sinless perfection, which was against their rules.
Do you all think that such a rule is..."Christian"?
BTW, I had over three thousand posts there, over a couple of years.
I usually 'couched' my mentioning of sinless perfection with innuendos, synonyms, and invitations to go to PM ing.
I knew their rules, but as something like declaring the actions of God are not legislated against from heaven, I was forced to skirt them.
Comments?
Dake taught it.


Word up!

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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: What do you think of this?

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Hill Top wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:56 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:59 am
Pastor Joey Faust, author of The Rod: Will God Spare It?: An Exhaustive Study of Temporary Punishment for Christians, was recently on Dr. Kent Hovind's Youtube broadcast. Faust presented some of his understanding of a middle road between lawless once saved always saved and conditional security (which some call sinless perfection). Hovind said that although he didn't like what Faust had to say, he could not refute it. Faust claims that many famous and not so famous Christians throughout the past 2,000 years have shared or somewhat shared this view. His book gives quotations from many of them as well as over 1,000 scripture references.

I have read Faust's book at least twice, but had almost forgotten about it until seeing this broadcast.

If you take the time to listen, please let me know your thoughts.
I listened to most of the presentation, and the guy has replaced heaven with the 1000 year kingdom.
He infers that the only thing we can lose by unfaithfulness is time in the millennial kingdom, instead of salvation itself.
He is the epitome of 2 Peter 2:19..."While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage."

Instead of him pitting light against darkness, he rationalized shades of grey.
Thanks for listening to his presentation, Hill Top.

In his mind, I don't think he's replaced Heaven with the Millennial Kingdom. Rather, he has distinguished further between the two than most modern Bible students do. And, he's doing this, at least partially, through distinguishing between salvation by grace through faith not of works and salvation by works.

How do you distinguish between salvation by works and salvation not of works, in your own view?


Matthew 5:19-20 New King James Version
"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

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branham1965
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Re: What do you think of this?

Post by branham1965 »

I know what he taught.I got my first Dake Bible in 1977.


Reverend Dake taught that a person is born again every time they sin and confess it to God.Notes on Galatians 4:19.So for example ifsay Reverend ? would miss it and lose his temper on his wife then he confesses it he gets born again again again again again again again again again again again again again again....

I must say humbly that i do not believe that.
I think :
" If you sin after you are born again,you can confess your sins and God will forgive you (1 John 1:9).But you aren't born again a second time.No one is ever born again twice.If you were born again every time your your sins were forgiven ,some people would be born again a million times.You can't be made a new creature more than once."
page 6 " The Present Day Ministry Of Jesus Christ " by Reverend Kenneth E.Hagin.
This slimline book is sold @www.DakeBible.com.

luchnia wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:34 am
branham1965 wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:06 am
NO ONE in any of the major Churches teach sinless perfection.Not one.

Only the fringes go to extremes about sinless perfection(and many other odd ball doctrines)
Every preacher i know of who taught it has had a major public fall.

NONE of the Church Fathers taught it.The Bible does not teach it.

It comes from the PRIDE of fallen man who does not want to bow the knees and acknowledge his/her own exceeding sinfulness his/her own utter helplessness and utter hopelessness and his/her complete need for the Lord Jesus Christ.

"JESUS PAID IT ALL,ALL TO HIM I OWE ,SIN HAD LEFT A CRIMSON STAIN ,HE WASHED IT WHITE AS SNOW."



Hill Top wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:37 pm
I just got a one month vacation from a different "Christian Forum".
Why?
Because I was discussing sinless perfection, which was against their rules.
Do you all think that such a rule is..."Christian"?
BTW, I had over three thousand posts there, over a couple of years.
I usually 'couched' my mentioning of sinless perfection with innuendos, synonyms, and invitations to go to PM ing.
I knew their rules, but as something like declaring the actions of God are not legislated against from heaven, I was forced to skirt them.
Comments?
Dake taught it.
Last edited by branham1965 on Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:54 am, edited 2 times in total.



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bibleman
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Re: What do you think of this?

Post by bibleman »

branham1965 wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:28 am
I know what he taught.I got my first Dake Bible in 1977.


Reverend Dake taught that a person is born again every time they sin and confess it to God.Notes on Galatians 4:19.So for example ifsay Reverend ? would miss it and lose his temper on his wife then he confesses it he gets born again again again again again again again again again again again again again again....

I must say humbly that i do not believe that.
I think :
" If you sin after you are born again,you can confess your sins and God will forgive you (1 John 1:9).But you aren't born again a second time.No one is ever born again twice.If you were born again every time your your sins were forgiven ,some people would be born again a million times.You can't be made a new creature more than once."
page 6 " The Present Day Ministry Of Jesus Christ " by Reverend Kenneth E.Hagin.
This slimline book is sold @www.DakeBible.com.

luchnia wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:34 am
branham1965 wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:06 am
NO ONE in any of the major Churches teach sinless perfection.Not one.

Only the fringes go to extremes about sinless perfection(and many other odd ball doctrines)
Every preacher i know of who taught it has had a major public fall.

NONE of the Church Fathers taught it.The Bible does not teach it.

It comes from the PRIDE of fallen man who does not want to bow the knees and acknowledge his/her own exceeding sinfulness his/her own utter helplessness and utter hopelessness and his/her complete need for the Lord Jesus Christ.

"JESUS PAID IT ALL,ALL TO HIM I OWE ,SIN HAD LEFT A CRIMSON STAIN ,HE WASHED IT WHITE AS SNOW."



Hill Top wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:37 pm
I just got a one month vacation from a different "Christian Forum".
Why?
Because I was discussing sinless perfection, which was against their rules.
Do you all think that such a rule is..."Christian"?
BTW, I had over three thousand posts there, over a couple of years.
I usually 'couched' my mentioning of sinless perfection with innuendos, synonyms, and invitations to go to PM ing.
I knew their rules, but as something like declaring the actions of God are not legislated against from heaven, I was forced to skirt them.
Comments?
Dake taught it.
Where in the world did you come up with this? "Reverend Dake taught that a person is born again every time they sin and confess it to God."

I have never seen that before.

I think you need to read Dake again.


God bless
Leon Bible

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Hill Top
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Re: What do you think of this?

Post by Hill Top »

branham1965 wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:02 am
Phil,
I am not saying that Christians should ever sin,miss the mark or fail God or not have the Lord's fear in them see Jeremiah 2:19.
Such a statement makes us aware that you do believe we can live without sin.
Good.
As men of the OT could not live without sin because they were all still living after the "flesh", (save for a handful of saints), the only recourse for their salvation was adherence to the Law and its atonements for sin.
Thankfully, in the NT we can put that fleshly mind, and man, to death; and be reborn of God's seed, in stead of Lawfully laboring for salvation under the Law.
From new seed comes different fruit.
Believers in both Testaments BACKSLID FAILED THE LORD AND MISSED THE MARK.
They had to really repent and beg for God's forgiveness and mercy See Isaiah 55:7 and Proverbs 28:13.
I notice listening to Reverend Dake on youtube i can tell he was a fine Pastor.He tells his listeners that they need to " behave themselves" but he does not butcher his hearers.He gives them hope. Man i appreciated his spirit.
Have you ever made a list of those who "fell back into sin" and of the results?
Ananias and Sapphira were killed.
The adulterer from 1 Corinthians was cast out, though forgiveness was available to him if he ever decided to TRULY turn from sin.
Who knows what happened to Demas.
Besides those four, I can think of no others who "drew back into perdition".
Paul was relentless in his warnings, exhortations, and admonitions against sinful behavior, and probably because not everyone who says they are a believer-Christian isn't necessarily telling the truth.
The devil has made every attempt to infiltrate the church, desiring to pollute it with doctrines that nullify the difference between the lovers of God and the part-time Christians/sinners.
It is actually a difference between light and dark.



Hill Top
Blessings are Upon the Head of the Just
Posts: 1720
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: What do you think of this?

Post by Hill Top »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:49 am
Hill Top wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:56 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:59 am
Pastor Joey Faust, author of The Rod: Will God Spare It?: An Exhaustive Study of Temporary Punishment for Christians, was recently on Dr. Kent Hovind's Youtube broadcast. Faust presented some of his understanding of a middle road between lawless once saved always saved and conditional security (which some call sinless perfection). Hovind said that although he didn't like what Faust had to say, he could not refute it. Faust claims that many famous and not so famous Christians throughout the past 2,000 years have shared or somewhat shared this view. His book gives quotations from many of them as well as over 1,000 scripture references.

I have read Faust's book at least twice, but had almost forgotten about it until seeing this broadcast.

If you take the time to listen, please let me know your thoughts.
I listened to most of the presentation, and the guy has replaced heaven with the 1000 year kingdom.
He infers that the only thing we can lose by unfaithfulness is time in the millennial kingdom, instead of salvation itself.
He is the epitome of 2 Peter 2:19..."While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage."

Instead of him pitting light against darkness, he rationalized shades of grey.
Thanks for listening to his presentation, Hill Top.

In his mind, I don't think he's replaced Heaven with the Millennial Kingdom. Rather, he has distinguished further between the two than most modern Bible students do. And, he's doing this, at least partially, through distinguishing between salvation by grace through faith not of works and salvation by works.

How do you distinguish between salvation by works and salvation not of works, in your own view?
As the "works" Paul fought against were circumcision and dietary laws, it is clear the "works" were of the Mosaic Law and customs of the Jews.
Salvation without "works" is adherence to the Spirit by true repentance from sin and life in accordance to the doctrine which is according to Godliness.
The "works" are those of the Mosaic Law, for salvation.
The devil has inserted every act of love and obedience into a category of things called "works" that the devil's children now avoid like a plague.
Belief, repentance from sin, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, manifested by speaking in tongues, sinless behavior, witnessing, preaching, reading, studying, etc are all cast out, vilified under the umbrella of "works".



Hill Top
Blessings are Upon the Head of the Just
Posts: 1720
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: What do you think of this?

Post by Hill Top »

bibleman wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:51 pm
branham1965 wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:28 am
I know what he taught.I got my first Dake Bible in 1977.


Reverend Dake taught that a person is born again every time they sin and confess it to God.Notes on Galatians 4:19.So for example ifsay Reverend ? would miss it and lose his temper on his wife then he confesses it he gets born again again again again again again again again again again again again again again....

I must say humbly that i do not believe that.
I think :
" If you sin after you are born again,you can confess your sins and God will forgive you (1 John 1:9).But you aren't born again a second time.No one is ever born again twice.If you were born again every time your your sins were forgiven ,some people would be born again a million times.You can't be made a new creature more than once."
page 6 " The Present Day Ministry Of Jesus Christ " by Reverend Kenneth E.Hagin.
This slimline book is sold @www.DakeBible.com.

luchnia wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:34 am
branham1965 wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:06 am
NO ONE in any of the major Churches teach sinless perfection.Not one.

Only the fringes go to extremes about sinless perfection(and many other odd ball doctrines)
Every preacher i know of who taught it has had a major public fall.

NONE of the Church Fathers taught it.The Bible does not teach it.

It comes from the PRIDE of fallen man who does not want to bow the knees and acknowledge his/her own exceeding sinfulness his/her own utter helplessness and utter hopelessness and his/her complete need for the Lord Jesus Christ.

"JESUS PAID IT ALL,ALL TO HIM I OWE ,SIN HAD LEFT A CRIMSON STAIN ,HE WASHED IT WHITE AS SNOW."



Hill Top wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:37 pm
I just got a one month vacation from a different "Christian Forum".
Why?
Because I was discussing sinless perfection, which was against their rules.
Do you all think that such a rule is..."Christian"?
BTW, I had over three thousand posts there, over a couple of years.
I usually 'couched' my mentioning of sinless perfection with innuendos, synonyms, and invitations to go to PM ing.
I knew their rules, but as something like declaring the actions of God are not legislated against from heaven, I was forced to skirt them.
Comments?
Dake taught it.
Where in the world did you come up with this? "Reverend Dake taught that a person is born again every time they sin and confess it to God."

I have never seen that before.

I think you need to read Dake again.
I'm glad branham added that he didn't believe it.



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