Dake Bible Discussion BoardThe Depth of Sin

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Hill Top
Blessings are Upon the Head of the Just
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Re: The Depth of Sin

Post by Hill Top »

luchnia wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 6:42 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 1:34 pm
luchnia wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 6:33 am
Grandfather wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 7:52 pm
This is more of a philosophical question that I do not think can be answered with a simple Bible verse. Perhaps I am wrong. The question is, do we fully realize the depth and scope of sin? I am not asking what sin does, but sin itself. Do we fully understand the deception it hides under? Do we recognize every "angel of light" that brings a false message? Is it possible for a child of God to be deceived and as a result to be "in sin" without knowing it?
Sin is cruel and deception is yet another challenge to decipher.

I think the scripture answers part of your question with a resounding yes, it is possible for a child of God to be deceived and be in sin as Jesus and others clearly taught, yet it is my opinion he or she will fully know it.

Since James explain how sin works it would be impossible for one not to know it because it is birthed in the heart of man. Man can act as if he doesn't know, but he does. Now deception is the tricky one and counterfeits are as close to perfect as they can be.
Yes they can...but no they can't?
Pick one.
You must have misunderstood the text I typed.
OK, I'm caught up...after a reread.
And I agree that if they "know it", it isn't deception but just serving the allegedly dead flesh.



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luchnia
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
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Re: The Depth of Sin

Post by luchnia »

Grandfather wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 7:01 pm
luchnia wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 6:33 am
I think the scripture answers part of your question with a resounding yes, it is possible for a child of God to be deceived and be in sin as Jesus and others clearly taught, yet it is my opinion he or she will fully know it.
Please explain the contradiction. If it is possible for a child of God to be deceived and be in sin, how can they "fully know it"? The very definition of deceived means that one does not realize what they are doing. A deceived person does not believe what they are doing is wrong? If they did, they would not be deceived but a willing participant.
One is not deceived to not know what sin is, they are deceived to commit sin. Look at Adam and Eve. They both knew, but were tricked into the act. It was a simple command, thou shalt not eat of the fruit of the tree....etc.

What did the serpent trick/deceive them into doing? Committing the act - giving birth to sin. They were not tricked into not knowing it was wrong and not knowing it was disobeying God. Eve knew it was wrong - she even told the serpent what God had said.

Genesis 3:2-5 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Who was Eve to believe? What was the serpents deception for them to eat the fruit? Man has always known evil, he just justifies the act of doing the evil. Scripture has many examples of this.

The same old deception of the serpent still goes on today and here are some of the lines you may hear:
You won't die if you sin.
You can sin, won't anything happen to you.
God loves you and He won't do anything.
God won't do what He says about sin.
The consequences of sin are not true.
Jesus freed you from committing sin, and so on it goes.

If there were no rule of sin, it would not be imputed to man as Paul wrote in Romans. Man knows when he breaks God's laws. Remember Judas a saved child of God whom joined in union with satan and betrayed Jesus. Judas knew exactly what he was doing, but gave in and chose to act on evil. Adam and Even used their own choice power to rebel against God.

Certainly one doing darkness (already in sin and the world not a fallen saint) long enough can become blinded to the truth, but those have walked in unrighteousness a long, long time.


Word up!

Hill Top
Blessings are Upon the Head of the Just
Posts: 1720
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: The Depth of Sin

Post by Hill Top »

luchnia wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 6:00 am
Grandfather wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 7:01 pm
luchnia wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 6:33 am
I think the scripture answers part of your question with a resounding yes, it is possible for a child of God to be deceived and be in sin as Jesus and others clearly taught, yet it is my opinion he or she will fully know it.
Please explain the contradiction. If it is possible for a child of God to be deceived and be in sin, how can they "fully know it"? The very definition of deceived means that one does not realize what they are doing. A deceived person does not believe what they are doing is wrong? If they did, they would not be deceived but a willing participant.
One is not deceived to not know what sin is, they are deceived to commit sin. Look at Adam and Eve. They both knew, but were tricked into the act. It was a simple command, thou shalt not eat of the fruit of the tree....etc.

What did the serpent trick/deceive them into doing? Committing the act - giving birth to sin. They were not tricked into not knowing it was wrong and not knowing it was disobeying God. Eve knew it was wrong - she even told the serpent what God had said.

Genesis 3:2-5 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Who was Eve to believe? What was the serpents deception for them to eat the fruit? Man has always known evil, he just justifies the act of doing the evil. Scripture has many examples of this.

The same old deception of the serpent still goes on today and here are some of the lines you may hear:
You won't die if you sin.
You can sin, won't anything happen to you.
God loves you and He won't do anything.
God won't do what He says about sin.
The consequences of sin are not true.
Jesus freed you from committing sin, and so on it goes.

If there were no rule of sin, it would not be imputed to man as Paul wrote in Romans. Man knows when he breaks God's laws. Remember Judas a saved child of God whom joined in union with satan and betrayed Jesus. Judas knew exactly what he was doing, but gave in and chose to act on evil. Adam and Even used their own choice power to rebel against God.

Certainly one doing darkness (already in sin and the world not a fallen saint) long enough can become blinded to the truth, but those have walked in unrighteousness a long, long time.
You write of the devil's deception and then try to sneak "Jesus freed you from committing sin, and so on it goes." in as a serpent's idea?
What is your point?



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luchnia
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 1966
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:01 am

Re: The Depth of Sin

Post by luchnia »

Hill Top wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 1:41 pm
luchnia wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 6:00 am
Grandfather wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 7:01 pm
luchnia wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 6:33 am
I think the scripture answers part of your question with a resounding yes, it is possible for a child of God to be deceived and be in sin as Jesus and others clearly taught, yet it is my opinion he or she will fully know it.
Please explain the contradiction. If it is possible for a child of God to be deceived and be in sin, how can they "fully know it"? The very definition of deceived means that one does not realize what they are doing. A deceived person does not believe what they are doing is wrong? If they did, they would not be deceived but a willing participant.
One is not deceived to not know what sin is, they are deceived to commit sin. Look at Adam and Eve. They both knew, but were tricked into the act. It was a simple command, thou shalt not eat of the fruit of the tree....etc.

What did the serpent trick/deceive them into doing? Committing the act - giving birth to sin. They were not tricked into not knowing it was wrong and not knowing it was disobeying God. Eve knew it was wrong - she even told the serpent what God had said.

Genesis 3:2-5 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Who was Eve to believe? What was the serpents deception for them to eat the fruit? Man has always known evil, he just justifies the act of doing the evil. Scripture has many examples of this.

The same old deception of the serpent still goes on today and here are some of the lines you may hear:
You won't die if you sin.
You can sin, won't anything happen to you.
God loves you and He won't do anything.
God won't do what He says about sin.
The consequences of sin are not true.
Jesus freed you from committing sin, and so on it goes.

If there were no rule of sin, it would not be imputed to man as Paul wrote in Romans. Man knows when he breaks God's laws. Remember Judas a saved child of God whom joined in union with satan and betrayed Jesus. Judas knew exactly what he was doing, but gave in and chose to act on evil. Adam and Even used their own choice power to rebel against God.

Certainly one doing darkness (already in sin and the world not a fallen saint) long enough can become blinded to the truth, but those have walked in unrighteousness a long, long time.
You write of the devil's deception and then try to sneak "Jesus freed you from committing sin, and so on it goes." in as a serpent's idea?
What is your point?
What does the sentence Jesus freed you from committing sin mean when people say that? Jesus did not free anyone from committing sin. All are free to commit sin in any time they want to.


Word up!

Hill Top
Blessings are Upon the Head of the Just
Posts: 1720
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: The Depth of Sin

Post by Hill Top »

luchnia wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 4:33 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 1:41 pm
luchnia wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 6:00 am
Grandfather wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 7:01 pm
luchnia wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 6:33 am
I think the scripture answers part of your question with a resounding yes, it is possible for a child of God to be deceived and be in sin as Jesus and others clearly taught, yet it is my opinion he or she will fully know it.
Please explain the contradiction. If it is possible for a child of God to be deceived and be in sin, how can they "fully know it"? The very definition of deceived means that one does not realize what they are doing. A deceived person does not believe what they are doing is wrong? If they did, they would not be deceived but a willing participant.
One is not deceived to not know what sin is, they are deceived to commit sin. Look at Adam and Eve. They both knew, but were tricked into the act. It was a simple command, thou shalt not eat of the fruit of the tree....etc.

What did the serpent trick/deceive them into doing? Committing the act - giving birth to sin. They were not tricked into not knowing it was wrong and not knowing it was disobeying God. Eve knew it was wrong - she even told the serpent what God had said.

Genesis 3:2-5 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Who was Eve to believe? What was the serpents deception for them to eat the fruit? Man has always known evil, he just justifies the act of doing the evil. Scripture has many examples of this.

The same old deception of the serpent still goes on today and here are some of the lines you may hear:
You won't die if you sin.
You can sin, won't anything happen to you.
God loves you and He won't do anything.
God won't do what He says about sin.
The consequences of sin are not true.
Jesus freed you from committing sin, and so on it goes.

If there were no rule of sin, it would not be imputed to man as Paul wrote in Romans. Man knows when he breaks God's laws. Remember Judas a saved child of God whom joined in union with satan and betrayed Jesus. Judas knew exactly what he was doing, but gave in and chose to act on evil. Adam and Even used their own choice power to rebel against God.

Certainly one doing darkness (already in sin and the world not a fallen saint) long enough can become blinded to the truth, but those have walked in unrighteousness a long, long time.
You write of the devil's deception and then try to sneak "Jesus freed you from committing sin, and so on it goes." in as a serpent's idea?
What is your point?
What does the sentence Jesus freed you from committing sin mean when people say that?
It means they don't commit sin anymore.
Jesus did not free anyone from committing sin. All are free to commit sin in any time they want to.
All are free NOT to commit sin too.
He freed me from committing sin, just like He said He would in John 8:32-34.



User avatar
luchnia
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 1966
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:01 am

Re: The Depth of Sin

Post by luchnia »

Hill Top wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:50 pm
All are free NOT to commit sin too.
He freed me from committing sin, just like He said He would in John 8:32-34.
Yes, agreed all are free NOT to commit sin, but Jesus did not free you from committing sin and never stopped any person from sinning - merely commanded they stop. Jesus said, "Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." It was always, and still is always, up to the individual's choosing. You are just as free to commit sin as you are NOT to commit sin.


Word up!

Hill Top
Blessings are Upon the Head of the Just
Posts: 1720
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: The Depth of Sin

Post by Hill Top »

luchnia wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 5:17 am
Hill Top wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:50 pm
All are free NOT to commit sin too.
He freed me from committing sin, just like He said He would in John 8:32-34.
Yes, agreed all are free NOT to commit sin, but Jesus did not free you from committing sin and never stopped any person from sinning - merely commanded they stop. Jesus said, "Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." It was always, and still is always, up to the individual's choosing. You are just as free to commit sin as you are NOT to commit sin.
Before the ability to be reborn was introduced by the death and resurrection of Christ, all were subject to the flesh.
The reborn are no longer subject to the flesh, as the reborn walk in the Spirit instead of in the flesh.
The reborn, they that are Christ's, have been freed from the flesh, with the affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
Jesus freed us from committing sin with the gifts of repentance FROM sin and baptism into His death, burial, and resurrection as new creatures.
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (John 8:34)



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