Dake Bible Discussion BoardTwo things that scripture teaches concerning sin and the saint:

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dolph
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Re: Two things that scripture teaches concerning sin and the saint:

Post by dolph »

SBD, I Cor.3:15 speaks of judgment of believers works, Bema Seat Judgment, not sins cancelling salvation.



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Re: Two things that scripture teaches concerning sin and the saint:

Post by branham1965 »

Thank you Roger for posting all that. :angel:



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Re: Two things that scripture teaches concerning sin and the saint:

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

dolph wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 10:15 pm
SBD, I Cor.3:15 speaks of judgment of believers works, Bema Seat Judgment, not sins cancelling salvation.
Exactly my point, Dolph.

Would you consider the 93 parts listed as wood, hay, and stubble in Dake's note on that verse to be sins or not?


Matthew 5:19-20 New King James Version
"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

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Re: Two things that scripture teaches concerning sin and the saint:

Post by dolph »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 10:28 pm
dolph wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 10:15 pm
SBD, I Cor.3:15 speaks of judgment of believers works, Bema Seat Judgment, not sins cancelling salvation.
Exactly my point, Dolph.

Would you consider the 93 parts listed as wood, hay, and stubble in Dake's note on that verse to be sins or not?
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 10:28 pm
dolph wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 10:15 pm
SBD, I Cor.3:15 speaks of judgment of believers works, Bema Seat Judgment, not sins cancelling salvation.
Exactly my point, Dolph.

Would you consider the 93 parts listed as wood, hay, and stubble in Dake's note on that verse to be sins or not?
I thought you were discussing salvation with regards to major and minor sins which this scripture and notes are not. Take one item: strife. If you battle your spouse or boss endlessly, day after day, that would be a major sin. But if you had a spat once a year that would be a minor sin in my mind but that is irrelevant to the discussion I thought we were having.



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Re: Two things that scripture teaches concerning sin and the saint:

Post by Hill Top »

It is written..."The wages of sin is death." (Rom 6:23)
There is no differentiation between major and minor sin, or between death penalty-sins and non death-penalty sins.
A death penalty sin is one you don't quit doing.
Repentance from sin makes one an ex-sinner...or else the repentance from sin was a lie to God.
And we can't forge a relationship with God that is based on a lie.



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Re: Two things that scripture teaches concerning sin and the saint:

Post by luchnia »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 9:11 pm
This is a vast subject, but the safest route is to quit the sin business. After all, we don't want to be in the place where God is either telling those that intercede on your behalf to leave Him alone concerning you. Or, worse yet, that He will not hear intercessions concerning you.
Yes, a vast subject, yet simplified in the new birth in my opinion and basically my point in what Dake was implying about the new birth. Dake statements of holiness such as, "...everyone who is a real Christian is holy..." sums it up. You won't do sin if you are born again as Dake pointed out. Are there grey areas where this is concerned?

Also, in many cases were Dake taught were sins, I would term as ignorance or unlearned things (non-death penalty) and unless conceived in the heart were not sins. Ignorance about something hardly makes it sin, so I don't define it as sin, until it becomes what we see in chapter 1 of James on how sin works in a person.

Dake states that we are cleansed and freed from all sin/unrighteousness when we confess our sins. He basically states born again people do not sin daily as many teach. He said if they sin they will be sent to hell. Does Dake mean all sin? Dake believed there is "...clean, holy, and victorious life in Christ secure from sin, the flesh, the world, and the devil."

Dake even goes on to state that we should not listen to such people that teach we sin everyday. Of course Dake held to sins that damn the soul and not common mistakes which he held to be non-death penalty sins. I hold to this simular, just do not call it in that manner. I believe sin has a much clearer definition.

If one is ignorant I say they are ignorant - I don't say they are in sin. I don't really frame it in death penalty or non-death penalty. Sin has to be birthed/conceived from the heart which would be classified according to Dake and death-penalty, ignorance is not knowing and non-death penalty so how can it be sin based on the scriptural defining of sin?


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Re: Two things that scripture teaches concerning sin and the saint:

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

dolph wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 11:42 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 10:28 pm
dolph wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 10:15 pm
SBD, I Cor.3:15 speaks of judgment of believers works, Bema Seat Judgment, not sins cancelling salvation.
Exactly my point, Dolph.

Would you consider the 93 parts listed as wood, hay, and stubble in Dake's note on that verse to be sins or not?
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 10:28 pm
dolph wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 10:15 pm
SBD, I Cor.3:15 speaks of judgment of believers works, Bema Seat Judgment, not sins cancelling salvation.
Exactly my point, Dolph.

Would you consider the 93 parts listed as wood, hay, and stubble in Dake's note on that verse to be sins or not?
I thought you were discussing salvation with regards to major and minor sins which this scripture and notes are not. Take one item: strife. If you battle your spouse or boss endlessly, day after day, that would be a major sin. But if you had a spat once a year that would be a minor sin in my mind but that is irrelevant to the discussion I thought we were having.
I think it is significant that in the example, 93 percent of the person's works are composed of things that would be considered sinful. Only 7 percent is composed of loving God and neighbor.

I think the note is highly relevant to our discussion. But, our opinions differ, I guess.


Matthew 5:19-20 New King James Version
"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

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Re: Two things that scripture teaches concerning sin and the saint:

Post by dolph »

I agree.



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Re: Two things that scripture teaches concerning sin and the saint:

Post by luchnia »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 9:52 pm
dolph wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 11:42 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 10:28 pm
dolph wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 10:15 pm
SBD, I Cor.3:15 speaks of judgment of believers works, Bema Seat Judgment, not sins cancelling salvation.
Exactly my point, Dolph.

Would you consider the 93 parts listed as wood, hay, and stubble in Dake's note on that verse to be sins or not?
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 10:28 pm
dolph wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 10:15 pm
SBD, I Cor.3:15 speaks of judgment of believers works, Bema Seat Judgment, not sins cancelling salvation.
Exactly my point, Dolph.

Would you consider the 93 parts listed as wood, hay, and stubble in Dake's note on that verse to be sins or not?
I thought you were discussing salvation with regards to major and minor sins which this scripture and notes are not. Take one item: strife. If you battle your spouse or boss endlessly, day after day, that would be a major sin. But if you had a spat once a year that would be a minor sin in my mind but that is irrelevant to the discussion I thought we were having.
I think it is significant that in the example, 93 percent of the person's works are composed of things that would be considered sinful. Only 7 percent is composed of loving God and neighbor.

I think the note is highly relevant to our discussion. But, our opinions differ, I guess.
There are certainly some different thoughts on this.

One thing is for sure, scripture teaches different levels of sin and different degrees of punishment for those sins. One can certainly hope that we at least have some percent of love of God and man that would indicate a path to eternal life, or we are living a miserable existence without hope and lost/doomed.

What if a man has false doctrine and builds upon that? To me that is not wood, hay, or stubble, because that foundation is not built upon Christ. Yet, where does ignorance fit into this. Is ignorance wood, hay, or stubble? I am, just as others, ignorant about many things, yet my heart's desire is not to mislead anyone by my ignorance.

I find ignorance (not knowing something) does not stem from an evil place, but a place of good where one grows in the knowledge of God. In many cases false doctrine has come by those in ignorance teaching what they don't understand. It may well be that there is no excuse for such ignorance, but man is simply not capable of knowing all things at least from my view.

In my opinion, we simply have to understand sin and how it works in order to grasp missing the moral mark. I have often thought that sin is one of the most misunderstood of bible teachings ever and if one really understood sin it would change their viewpoint.


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Re: Two things that scripture teaches concerning sin and the saint:

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

luchnia wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 9:05 am
There are certainly some different thoughts on this.

One thing is for sure, scripture teaches different levels of sin and different degrees of punishment for those sins. One can certainly hope that we at least have some percent of love of God and man that would indicate a path to eternal life, or we are living a miserable existence without hope and lost/doomed.

What if a man has false doctrine and builds upon that? To me that is not wood, hay, or stubble, because that foundation is not built upon Christ. Yet, where does ignorance fit into this. Is ignorance wood, hay, or stubble? I am, just as others, ignorant about many things, yet my heart's desire is not to mislead anyone by my ignorance.

I find ignorance (not knowing something) does not stem from an evil place, but a place of good where one grows in the knowledge of God. In many cases false doctrine has come by those in ignorance teaching what they don't understand. It may well be that there is no excuse for such ignorance, but man is simply not capable of knowing all things at least from my view.

In my opinion, we simply have to understand sin and how it works in order to grasp missing the moral mark. I have often thought that sin is one of the most misunderstood of bible teachings ever and if one really understood sin it would change their viewpoint.
Ignorance can be dangerous. Sin and ignorance are connected in at least sixteen verses in the Bible. Offerings were required for sins committed in ignorance. This tells me that such sins aren't necessarily just overlooked because of ignorance. Rather, the expectation seems to be that ignorance would be discovered and that once discovered, repentance from such error would be expected and compensation would be made.

Do you ever pray for God to show you where you may be sinning through ignorance?

Psalm 19:12 Amplified Bible
Who can discern his lapses and errors? Clear me from hidden [and unconscious] faults.


Matthew 5:19-20 New King James Version
"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

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