Dake Bible Discussion BoardWHAT'S WRONG WITH BEING PERFECT?

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Hill Top
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Re: Hyperbole?

Post by Hill Top »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:20 am
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:17 am
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:22 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:20 pm
It isn't a doctrinal view Paul is expounding, but any "uncleanness" is a kind of euphemism or a worst case scenario.
Literally unclean?
Not till their first sin.
For the children of the wicked, they sin as soon as they are born, when they speak their first lie. See Psalms 58:3.

For that to happen, sin must have been conceived in their heart much earlier and allowed time to gestate and come to fruition. Thus, these children are already in spiritual fornication with the devil before birth to have time for these lies to come to fruition. See James 1:14-15. Just as John was filled with the Spirit of God in the womb, so the children of the wicked are filled with the spirit of the devil in the womb.

For such, the psalmist prayed that they would be miscarried (see Ps. 58:8).
I think you are allowing hyperbole to cross over into doctrine.
Hyperbole?
Do you think Jesus was using hyperbole when He judged the Scribes and Pharisees of having killed Zechariah (which happened long before they were even conceived? See Matthew 23:35.
No, I don't...but I also don't believe He was accusing individual men either.
He was facing off against a long culture of wickedness.
I do not. I think His judgment of the Scribes and Pharisees He was speaking to follows the same logic as Levi paying tithes while he was still in Abraham's loins. See Hebrews 7:9-10. People do things even before conception and receive credit for their actions.
No man pays for another man's sins.
"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him." (Ezek 18:20)
And, in the same way that Levi paid tithes in Abraham, all people that were in Adam's loins, ate of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil when Adam partook and are guilty of committing that sin so long as they remain in Adam. Thus, the need for children to be sanctified, or set apart, out of Adam.
Men can't be accused of a sin they didn't commit.
You're on the road to legitimizing abortion.



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branham1965
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Re: WHAT'S WRONG WITH BEING PERFECT?

Post by branham1965 »

Phil,

You are the only person on this earth that thinks your perfect.You are not perfect
you are greatly deceived in my view. +tounge3



Hill Top
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Re: WHAT'S WRONG WITH BEING PERFECT?

Post by Hill Top »

branham1965 wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:16 am
Phil,
You are the only person on this earth that thinks your perfect.You are not perfect
you are greatly deceived in my view.
I'm not the only one, and even if I was...it would be to the glory of God, and an inspiration for all the others who suffer the regret for their own sins as I once did.
I sorrowed to repentance from sin. (2 Cor:7-10)
So can you.



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branham1965
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Re: WHAT'S WRONG WITH BEING PERFECT?

Post by branham1965 »

I don't think any man is perfect in the flesh or mortal body.There was one named JESUS who was perfect and He died on the Cross.
You could not find a single credible theologian or preacher=with fruits who believes that.


Hill Top wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:15 pm
branham1965 wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:16 am
Phil,
You are the only person on this earth that thinks your perfect.You are not perfect
you are greatly deceived in my view.
I'm not the only one, and even if I was...it would be to the glory of God, and an inspiration for all the others who suffer the regret for their own sins as I once did.
I sorrowed to repentance from sin. (2 Cor:7-10)
So can you.



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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: Not Until Their First Sin?

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

luchnia wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:35 am
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:22 pm
For the children of the wicked, they sin as soon as they are born, when they speak their first lie. See Psalms 58:3.

For that to happen, sin must have been conceived in their heart much earlier and allowed time to gestate and come to fruition. Thus, these children are already in spiritual fornication with the devil before birth to have time for these lies to come to fruition. See James 1:14-15. Just as John was filled with the Spirit of God in the womb, so the children of the wicked are filled with the spirit of the devil in the womb.

For such, the psalmist prayed that they would be miscarried (see Ps. 58:8).
Curious as to how a child is tempted, drawn away by their own lust for sin to be conceived in their heart in the womb?
That is a good question. But, the question doesn't rule out the fact that the child of the wicked lie immediately upon birth.


Matthew 5:19-20 New King James Version
"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: Hyperbole?

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Hill Top wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:31 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:20 am
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:17 am
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:22 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:20 pm
It isn't a doctrinal view Paul is expounding, but any "uncleanness" is a kind of euphemism or a worst case scenario.
Literally unclean?
Not till their first sin.
For the children of the wicked, they sin as soon as they are born, when they speak their first lie. See Psalms 58:3.

For that to happen, sin must have been conceived in their heart much earlier and allowed time to gestate and come to fruition. Thus, these children are already in spiritual fornication with the devil before birth to have time for these lies to come to fruition. See James 1:14-15. Just as John was filled with the Spirit of God in the womb, so the children of the wicked are filled with the spirit of the devil in the womb.

For such, the psalmist prayed that they would be miscarried (see Ps. 58:8).
I think you are allowing hyperbole to cross over into doctrine.
Hyperbole?
Do you think Jesus was using hyperbole when He judged the Scribes and Pharisees of having killed Zechariah (which happened long before they were even conceived? See Matthew 23:35.
No, I don't...but I also don't believe He was accusing individual men either.
He was facing off against a long culture of wickedness.
I agree that he was facing off against such a culture, but a culture is made up of the individuals of which it consists.

Raising the issue of whether or not something is hyperbole is problematic in and of itself. What else may be hyperbole?


Matthew 5:19-20 New King James Version
"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: Hyperbole?

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Hill Top wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:31 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:20 am
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:17 am
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:22 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:20 pm
It isn't a doctrinal view Paul is expounding, but any "uncleanness" is a kind of euphemism or a worst case scenario.
Literally unclean?
Not till their first sin.
For the children of the wicked, they sin as soon as they are born, when they speak their first lie. See Psalms 58:3.

For that to happen, sin must have been conceived in their heart much earlier and allowed time to gestate and come to fruition. Thus, these children are already in spiritual fornication with the devil before birth to have time for these lies to come to fruition. See James 1:14-15. Just as John was filled with the Spirit of God in the womb, so the children of the wicked are filled with the spirit of the devil in the womb.

For such, the psalmist prayed that they would be miscarried (see Ps. 58:8).
I think you are allowing hyperbole to cross over into doctrine.
Hyperbole?
Do you think Jesus was using hyperbole when He judged the Scribes and Pharisees of having killed Zechariah (which happened long before they were even conceived? See Matthew 23:35.

I do not. I think His judgment of the Scribes and Pharisees He was speaking to follows the same logic as Levi paying tithes while he was still in Abraham's loins. See Hebrews 7:9-10. People do things even before conception and receive credit for their actions.

No man pays for another man's sins.
"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him." (Ezek 18:20)
I might be mistaken, but I think we've discussed Ezekiel 18:20, before. The premise that Ezekiel 18:20 is built upon is that it is directed towards those in covenant with the Lord. Ezekiel 18:2-3 confirm that this is directed toward Israel. Therefore, I do not believe that it is correct to apply Ezekiel 18:20 to those outside of a valid covenant with the Lord. Thus, it does not apply to the children of unbelievers/wicked.


Matthew 5:19-20 New King James Version
"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: Hyperbole?

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Hill Top wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:31 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:20 am
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:17 am
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:22 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:20 pm
It isn't a doctrinal view Paul is expounding, but any "uncleanness" is a kind of euphemism or a worst case scenario.
Literally unclean?
Not till their first sin.
For the children of the wicked, they sin as soon as they are born, when they speak their first lie. See Psalms 58:3.

For that to happen, sin must have been conceived in their heart much earlier and allowed time to gestate and come to fruition. Thus, these children are already in spiritual fornication with the devil before birth to have time for these lies to come to fruition. See James 1:14-15. Just as John was filled with the Spirit of God in the womb, so the children of the wicked are filled with the spirit of the devil in the womb.

For such, the psalmist prayed that they would be miscarried (see Ps. 58:8).
I think you are allowing hyperbole to cross over into doctrine.
Hyperbole?
Do you think Jesus was using hyperbole when He judged the Scribes and Pharisees of having killed Zechariah (which happened long before they were even conceived? See Matthew 23:35.

I do not. I think His judgment of the Scribes and Pharisees He was speaking to follows the same logic as Levi paying tithes while he was still in Abraham's loins. See Hebrews 7:9-10. People do things even before conception and receive credit for their actions.

And, in the same way that Levi paid tithes in Abraham, all people that were in Adam's loins, ate of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil when Adam partook and are guilty of committing that sin so long as they remain in Adam. Thus, the need for children to be sanctified, or set apart, out of Adam.
Men can't be accused of a sin they didn't commit.
You're on the road to legitimizing abortion.
I don't believe that they didn't commit them. On the contrary, my argument is that they did commit them.

I believe the idea that all children automatically go to Heaven if they die young enough or are aborted does far more to legitimize abortion than anything that I've presented. Mothers have tried to kill or have actually killed their own children in an attempt to prevent them from reaching the age of accountability. People thought they were insane, but if a mother truly realized that the odds of their children going to Hell if they die after the age of accountability are practically certain, all sane mothers would kill their children before letting them become accountable.

Paul wished that he could be cut off so that unbelieving Israel could be saved. What true mother who genuinely understood the likelihood that her child/children would end up in eternal conscious torment wouldn't be willing to be cut off in order for her children to be saved from an eternity in Hell.

That said, in my understanding that doesn't work because the age of accountability only applies to the children of at least one believing parent. Murdering the children in an attempt to get them into Heaven would void the believing part by proving that parent to not be a believer and thus cause the children to be considered unclean.


Matthew 5:19-20 New King James Version
"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

Hill Top
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
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Re: WHAT'S WRONG WITH BEING PERFECT?

Post by Hill Top »

branham1965 wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:55 am
I don't think any man is perfect in the flesh or mortal body.There was one named JESUS who was perfect and He died on the Cross.
You could not find a single credible theologian or preacher=with fruits who believes that.


Hill Top wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:15 pm
branham1965 wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:16 am
Phil,
You are the only person on this earth that thinks your perfect.You are not perfect
you are greatly deceived in my view.
I'm not the only one, and even if I was...it would be to the glory of God, and an inspiration for all the others who suffer the regret for their own sins as I once did.
I sorrowed to repentance from sin. (2 Cor:7-10)
So can you.
Having perfect hair and skin is not part of the deal.
God doesn't care how pretty one is, but how aligned with Him we are.
We can all be perfectly aligned with Him.

BTW, where did you see that Jesus had a perfect flesh/body?



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branham1965
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Re: WHAT'S WRONG WITH BEING PERFECT?

Post by branham1965 »

So you claim that you are perfect but that the Lord Jesus Christ is not perfect. :shocked!: :crazyeyes:

That is flawed theology if i ever heard it.



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