Dake Bible Discussion BoardWHAT'S WRONG WITH BEING PERFECT?

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Ironman
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Re: WHAT'S WRONG WITH BEING PERFECT?

Post by Ironman »

Quote Hill Top, "There is nothing to deny.
If "beings" want to please themselves over pleasing God...they will.
It is called idolatry.
It isn't the action of those who love God.
Nor is it an action done by those reborn of God's seed.."
.

Tear these scriptures out of your bible hill Top.

King Saul. Saul, who was in God's favour and who had the Holy Spirit, lost that favour and was destroyed because of sin (1 Chron. 10:13-14).
He committed suicide and must be lost, for no murderer has eternal live (1 Sam. 28:7-25; 31:1-6; 1 John 3:15; Gal.
5:19-21).
To argue that Saul was never a saved man is to demonstrate a lack of Bible truth. "God gave Saul another heart . . . and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied (1 Sam. 10:9-13). If this was not an experience of the saved man then it was nothing at all.
It is also recorded how the Spirit of God LEFT HIM WHEN HE SINNED (1 Sam. 16:12-23). Saul went into spiritualism and God said He would cut off the man who did this (Lev. 19:31; 20:6; Deut. 18:11). He was a very humble and Godley man to begin with, but he did not end in this way (1 Sam. 10:21-24).


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

Hill Top
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Re: WHAT'S WRONG WITH BEING PERFECT?

Post by Hill Top »

Ironman wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:13 pm
Quote Hill Top, "There is nothing to deny.
If "beings" want to please themselves over pleasing God...they will.
It is called idolatry.
It isn't the action of those who love God.
Nor is it an action done by those reborn of God's seed.."
.

Tear these scriptures out of your bible hill Top.

King Saul. Saul, who was in God's favour and who had the Holy Spirit, lost that favour and was destroyed because of sin (1 Chron. 10:13-14).
He committed suicide and must be lost, for no murderer has eternal live (1 Sam. 28:7-25; 31:1-6; 1 John 3:15; Gal.
5:19-21).
To argue that Saul was never a saved man is to demonstrate a lack of Bible truth. "God gave Saul another heart . . . and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied (1 Sam. 10:9-13). If this was not an experience of the saved man then it was nothing at all.
It is also recorded how the Spirit of God LEFT HIM WHEN HE SINNED (1 Sam. 16:12-23). Saul went into spiritualism and God said He would cut off the man who did this (Lev. 19:31; 20:6; Deut. 18:11). He was a very humble and Godley man to begin with, but he did not end in this way (1 Sam. 10:21-24).
As you have made abundantly clear, being "saved" won't be manifested till the end of our lives, and at the final judgment we will either hear that our names are in the book of life...or not.
Saying "I am saved" is a bit of a misnomer, as we should be saying "I am on the right path to salvation".
Or not.



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branham1965
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Re: WHAT'S WRONG WITH BEING PERFECT?

Post by branham1965 »

How strange that the great Apostle Paul said :

1 Corinthians 9:27 " I KEEP UNDER MY BODY,AND BRING IT INTO SUBJECTION:LEST THAT BY ANY MEANS ,WHEN I HAVE PREACHED TO OTHERS, I MYSELF SHOULD BE A CASTAWAY."

If he was perfect at his salvation in Damascus as HT says

HE NEVER would of said that.Though he was the greatest Apostle he still had to keep under his body and bring it into subjection.

Paul as great as he was ..he still had to keep under his body and bring it into subjection.



Hill Top
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Re: WHAT'S WRONG WITH BEING PERFECT?

Post by Hill Top »

branham1965 wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:34 pm
How strange that the great Apostle Paul said :

1 Corinthians 9:27 " I KEEP UNDER MY BODY,AND BRING IT INTO SUBJECTION:LEST THAT BY ANY MEANS ,WHEN I HAVE PREACHED TO OTHERS, I MYSELF SHOULD BE A CASTAWAY."

If he was perfect at his salvation in Damascus as HT says

HE NEVER would of said that.Though he was the greatest Apostle he still had to keep under his body and bring it into subjection.

Paul as great as he was ..he still had to keep under his body and bring it into subjection.
If he could do it, why can't we?
Fact is, we can keep manifesting we have been reborn of God...to the glory of God and the name of Jesus Christ.

Your point seems to be that anyone reborn of God doesn't have to do anything to manifest his impending salvation.
That we can just sit around eating bon bons till the return of Christ.
Not so.
The devil will do all in his power to derail our faith, and we must be wary of him.
We can only call ourselves lovers of God as long as we love God above all else.



Sonflower
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Re: By Hill Top's Standards

Post by Sonflower »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 11:23 am
dolph wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 1:01 am
I like the breath of fresh air Hilltop brings to this site.
By Hill Top's standards,
you aren't saved
and never have been saved.

By Hill Top's standards,
it's likely that
you have never known anyone who has ever been saved,
other than,
maybe,
Hill Top.

By Hill Top's standards,
if a person has sinned
after being water baptized,
they were never saved.
And, their water baptism was invalid.
New here so I'll ask, what or who is Hill Top?

I read your signature in time with your post and thought the signature was included in your reply. Having said that, regarding your signature, and the last part about unless our righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and pharisees....

Didn't Jesus call the Pharisees vipers and say they were of their father the Devil, when they called him to appear before them and answer for his miracles they questioned?

As to the OP question itself, as those born again in Christ we are no longer sinners who sin, as sin was counted against us prior to our redemption.
I don't think we can be perfect being we are still alive in this world where Satan is lord. However, we can I believe keep ourselves attuned to the leading of indwelling Holy Spirit God and rise above the fray. I think we'll be perfect once we're dead and with the Father.



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branham1965
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Re: WHAT'S WRONG WITH BEING PERFECT?

Post by branham1965 »

Phil,
I agree that Christians MUST live free from all sin to go to heaven.

Reverend Dake taught strong on holy living and taught us to be free from sin.

Where i disagree with you is when you say Christians CANNOT SIN.

That is wrong in my view.



Hill Top wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:40 pm
branham1965 wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:34 pm
How strange that the great Apostle Paul said :

1 Corinthians 9:27 " I KEEP UNDER MY BODY,AND BRING IT INTO SUBJECTION:LEST THAT BY ANY MEANS ,WHEN I HAVE PREACHED TO OTHERS, I MYSELF SHOULD BE A CASTAWAY."

If he was perfect at his salvation in Damascus as HT says

HE NEVER would of said that.Though he was the greatest Apostle he still had to keep under his body and bring it into subjection.

Paul as great as he was ..he still had to keep under his body and bring it into subjection.
If he could do it, why can't we?
Fact is, we can keep manifesting we have been reborn of God...to the glory of God and the name of Jesus Christ.

Your point seems to be that anyone reborn of God doesn't have to do anything to manifest his impending salvation.
That we can just sit around eating bon bons till the return of Christ.
Not so.
The devil will do all in his power to derail our faith, and we must be wary of him.
We can only call ourselves lovers of God as long as we love God above all else.



Hill Top
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
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Re: By Hill Top's Standards

Post by Hill Top »

Sonflower wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:52 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 11:23 am
dolph wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 1:01 am
I like the breath of fresh air Hilltop brings to this site.
By Hill Top's standards,
you aren't saved
and never have been saved.

By Hill Top's standards,
it's likely that
you have never known anyone who has ever been saved,
other than,
maybe,
Hill Top.

By Hill Top's standards,
if a person has sinned
after being water baptized,
they were never saved.
And, their water baptism was invalid.
New here so I'll ask, what or who is Hill Top?

I read your signature in time with your post and thought the signature was included in your reply. Having said that, regarding your signature, and the last part about unless our righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and pharisees....

Didn't Jesus call the Pharisees vipers and say they were of their father the Devil, when they called him to appear before them and answer for his miracles they questioned?

As to the OP question itself, as those born again in Christ we are no longer sinners who sin, as sin was counted against us prior to our redemption.
I don't think we can be perfect being we are still alive in this world where Satan is lord. However, we can I believe keep ourselves attuned to the leading of indwelling Holy Spirit God and rise above the fray. I think we'll be perfect once we're dead and with the Father.
Hi, Sonflower...
Welcome to the site.
I am Hill Top, and I'm just another poster.
The matter of a "signature" is addressed to someone else so I won't respond to that.

Are you imagining a "sinner who doesn't sin" as someone who still commits sin?
That would be an oxymoron.
As there is no sin in Christ, we must also be free of sin to be "in Christ".

As for being a "perfect being", our perfection has nothing to do with the vessel we reside in, but with the reborn "new creature" we are after conversion.
You can't judge a book by its "cover", but you can by its actions.



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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: By Hill Top's Standards

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Sonflower wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:52 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 11:23 am
dolph wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 1:01 am
I like the breath of fresh air Hilltop brings to this site.
By Hill Top's standards,
you aren't saved
and never have been saved.

By Hill Top's standards,
it's likely that
you have never known anyone who has ever been saved,
other than,
maybe,
Hill Top.

By Hill Top's standards,
if a person has sinned
after being water baptized,
they were never saved.
And, their water baptism was invalid.
I read your signature in time with your post and thought the signature was included in your reply. Having said that, regarding your signature, and the last part about unless our righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and pharisees....

Didn't Jesus call the Pharisees vipers and say they were of their father the Devil, when they called him to appear before them and answer for his miracles they questioned?
He did, indeed.

My thoughts on some of what was lacking in the righteousness of the Scribes and the Pharisees... They were mostly for show. No real inward righteousness. And, they liked to make a big deal out of minor matters while ignoring major matters. Compare and contrast the first part of the passage that was in my signature.

Matthew 5:19-20 New King James Version
"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

There are those that break the "least commandments" (and teach others to do the same) that "shall be called least in the Kingdom." And, there are those that shall keep the least commandments (and teach others to do the same) that "shall be called great in the Kingdom."

The Scribes and the Pharisees are contrasted against those that either keep or break the least commandments (and teach others to do the same). The difference, if I understand correctly, is that the Scribes and the Pharisees break the more important commandments (and teach others to do the same). They major on the minors and ignore the majors.

Thoughts?



Hill Top
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
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Re: WHAT'S WRONG WITH BEING PERFECT?

Post by Hill Top »

branham1965 wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:34 pm
Phil,
I agree that Christians MUST live free from all sin to go to heaven.

Reverend Dake taught strong on holy living and taught us to be free from sin.

Where i disagree with you is when you say Christians CANNOT SIN.

That is wrong in my view.
Can fig seeds bring forth grapes?
Fig seeds cannot bear grapes, and God's seed cannot bear liars or thieves.
We have been reborn of God's seed and cannot bring forth the fruit of the devil.

God has provided everything we need to remain pure after our rebirth from His seed, including verses like 1 Cor 10:13..."There hath no temptation taken but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that we are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."

Look for the "escapes"!



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Ironman
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Re: WHAT'S WRONG WITH BEING PERFECT?

Post by Ironman »

Hill Top wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:12 pm
branham1965 wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:34 pm
Phil,
I agree that Christians MUST live free from all sin to go to heaven.

Reverend Dake taught strong on holy living and taught us to be free from sin.

Where i disagree with you is when you say Christians CANNOT SIN.

That is wrong in my view.
Can fig seeds bring forth grapes?
Fig seeds cannot bear grapes, and God's seed cannot bear liars or thieves.
We have been reborn of God's seed and cannot bring forth the fruit of the devil.

God has provided everything we need to remain pure after our rebirth from His seed, including verses like 1 Cor 10:13..."There hath no temptation taken but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that we are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."

Look for the "escapes"!
Anyone born of God can transgress and return to sin, just a Judas, King David and several others did.

***************************************************************************************************************************
1 John 3: 9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The secret of a proper understanding of this verse is in the word "IN," which means in harmony with or in union with, and not bodily entrance into.

The seed is the Word of God by which a man is born again (1 Peter 1:23; Jas. 1:18). The simple idea is that as long as one remains in union with or in harmony with the seed, or the Word of God, he cannot sin. If he grows cold in his love for God, ceases to pray and keep his spiritual life up to normal he then may be overcome again by sin by transgressing the Word of God (1 John 2:1; 2 Peter 1:5-10.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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