Dake Bible Discussion BoardDo these Greek words refer to the same event??

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branham1965
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Do these Greek words refer to the same event??

Post by branham1965 »

There are four Greek words that are used to refer to The Lord's return.

Parousia,Epihinea,Apokolupsis,and Basilea.Do they refer to the same event or different events???



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luchnia
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Re: Do these Greek words refer to the same event??

Post by luchnia »

branham1965 wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:39 am
There are four Greek words that are used to refer to The Lord's return.

Parousia,Epihinea,Apokolupsis,and Basilea.Do they refer to the same event or different events???
I don't believe they do, but let's see what others think. If I am not mistaken basilea has to do with judgment, apokolupsis a revealing. I am not familiar with Epihinea. According to Dake Parousia probably refers to two events: "Parousia (GSN-<G3952>), personal appearance, presence. The word is generally translated "coming," hence it is used of both the rapture (coming in the air for the saints), and the second coming (coming from heaven with the saints to earth). The word is used of the rapture in 1Cor. 15:20-23; 1Th. 2:19; 3:13; 4:15; 5:23; 2Th. 2:1; Jas. 5:7-8; 1Jn. 2:28. It is used of the second coming in Mt. 24:3,27,37,39; 2Th. 2:8; 2Pet. 1:16; 3:4."


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Re: Do these Greek words refer to the same event??

Post by dolph »

The recent surge of anti-pre-tribulation rapture "experts" mock the pre-tribbers by saying the Lord does not return twice to the earth. But pre-tribbers, like Mr. Dake, never have held that the Lord returns twice. At the rapture of the church the saints meet the Lord in the air. At the Lord's return He arrives with His bride and angels TO the earth and defeats the Anti-Christ at the Battle of Armageddon.

Few Christians are aware that there are actually five raptures that happen during the Age of Grace: Christ and the O.T. saints three days and nights after the crucifixion; the pre-trib rapture that occurs before the appearance of the A/C; the rapture of the manchild; the rapture of the two witnesses and the rapture near the end of the tribulation of the great multitude.



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Re: Do these Greek words refer to the same event??

Post by Hill Top »

luchnia wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:28 am
branham1965 wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:39 am
There are four Greek words that are used to refer to The Lord's return.

Parousia,Epihinea,Apokolupsis,and Basilea.Do they refer to the same event or different events???
I don't believe they do, but let's see what others think. If I am not mistaken basilea has to do with judgment, apokolupsis a revealing. I am not familiar with Epihinea. According to Dake Parousia probably refers to two events: "Parousia (GSN-<G3952>), personal appearance, presence. The word is generally translated "coming," hence it is used of both the rapture (coming in the air for the saints), and the second coming (coming from heaven with the saints to earth). The word is used of the rapture in 1Cor. 15:20-23; 1Th. 2:19; 3:13; 4:15; 5:23; 2Th. 2:1; Jas. 5:7-8; 1Jn. 2:28. It is used of the second coming in Mt. 24:3,27,37,39; 2Th. 2:8; 2Pet. 1:16; 3:4."
How does John 11:24 fit into "two" comings of the Lord?
"24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day."
Rising again in the resurrection, and last day both at the same time...



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Re: Do these Greek words refer to the same event??

Post by luchnia »

Hill Top wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:56 pm
luchnia wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:28 am
branham1965 wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:39 am
There are four Greek words that are used to refer to The Lord's return.

Parousia,Epihinea,Apokolupsis,and Basilea.Do they refer to the same event or different events???
I don't believe they do, but let's see what others think. If I am not mistaken basilea has to do with judgment, apokolupsis a revealing. I am not familiar with Epihinea. According to Dake Parousia probably refers to two events: "Parousia (GSN-<G3952>), personal appearance, presence. The word is generally translated "coming," hence it is used of both the rapture (coming in the air for the saints), and the second coming (coming from heaven with the saints to earth). The word is used of the rapture in 1Cor. 15:20-23; 1Th. 2:19; 3:13; 4:15; 5:23; 2Th. 2:1; Jas. 5:7-8; 1Jn. 2:28. It is used of the second coming in Mt. 24:3,27,37,39; 2Th. 2:8; 2Pet. 1:16; 3:4."
How does John 11:24 fit into "two" comings of the Lord?
"24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day."
Rising again in the resurrection, and last day both at the same time...
There is a coming for His saints and there is a coming with His saints. They are very different events.


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Re: Do these Greek words refer to the same event??

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

branham1965 wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:39 am
There are four Greek words that are used to refer to The Lord's return.

Parousia,Epihinea,Apokolupsis,and Basilea.Do they refer to the same event or different events???
If you just look up all the places where Parousia is used in the New Testament, I think you'll see that this word (and the others, if you likewise look them up) likely refer to the events spoken of in the context where they are used. They do not always refer to the Lord's return.

It depends upon the context.


Matthew 5:19-20 New King James Version
"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

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Re: Rapture Timing Experts

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

dolph wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:08 am
The recent surge of anti-pre-tribulation rapture "experts" mock the pre-tribbers
"Experts" are rare, especially when it comes to proving the Pre-Trib Rapture.

If you had to list three biblical passages that solidly supported the Pre-Trib Rapture, could you do it?


Matthew 5:19-20 New King James Version
"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

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Re: Do these Greek words refer to the same event??

Post by Hill Top »

luchnia wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:04 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:56 pm
luchnia wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:28 am
branham1965 wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:39 am
There are four Greek words that are used to refer to The Lord's return.

Parousia,Epihinea,Apokolupsis,and Basilea.Do they refer to the same event or different events???
I don't believe they do, but let's see what others think. If I am not mistaken basilea has to do with judgment, apokolupsis a revealing. I am not familiar with Epihinea. According to Dake Parousia probably refers to two events: "Parousia (GSN-<G3952>), personal appearance, presence. The word is generally translated "coming," hence it is used of both the rapture (coming in the air for the saints), and the second coming (coming from heaven with the saints to earth). The word is used of the rapture in 1Cor. 15:20-23; 1Th. 2:19; 3:13; 4:15; 5:23; 2Th. 2:1; Jas. 5:7-8; 1Jn. 2:28. It is used of the second coming in Mt. 24:3,27,37,39; 2Th. 2:8; 2Pet. 1:16; 3:4."
How does John 11:24 fit into "two" comings of the Lord?

"24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day."
Rising again in the resurrection, and last day both at the same time...
There is a coming for His saints and there is a coming with His saints. They are very different events.
I can't agree.
If the period of tribulation lasts 3.5 (or 7) years, will there be no conversions to the truth during those years between the "two" comings of the Lord?
Where is those convert's pre-trib rapture?

Besides, Mary said Lazarus would be raised on the LAST day.
If the saint were to benefit from an early resurrection, why would Lazarus have to wait 3.5 (or 7) more years?



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Re: Rapture Timing Experts

Post by dolph »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:23 pm
dolph wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:08 am
The recent surge of anti-pre-tribulation rapture "experts" mock the pre-tribbers
"Experts" are rare, especially when it comes to proving the Pre-Trib Rapture.

If you had to list three biblical passages that solidly supported the Pre-Trib Rapture, could you do it?

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 King James Version (KJV)
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54 King James Version (KJV)
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1Thessalonians 2:1-10 King James Version (KJV)
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Note: The frequent mistake made by those who are anti- pre-trib is using the Olivet Discourse scriptures spoken by Jesus for their arguments against the pre-tribbers. Jesus was the apostle of the circumcision and was talking to the Jews who knew nothing of the Church and going to Heaven. Paul was the apostle of the Gentiles and he was the one God chose to give the 18 or 19 mysteries of the Church. Paul never spoke of the tribulation, Jacob's trouble or Daniel's 70th Week. Paul was looking for the Blessed Hope, Jesus and the rapture of the Church. In discussing the rapture twice Paul tells the Church to "comfort one another with these words.The Jews on the other hand expected a "day of vengeance", Isa.61:2. Keep in mind that it was the Jews who killed all their prophets, crucified Christ, sacrificed their babies to Mollock and conspired to kill Paul, Acts 23:12-14.



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dolph
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Re: Do these Greek words refer to the same event??

Post by dolph »

I meant to include in the above that the Olivet Discourse is ONLY about Christ's SECOND COMING. As we see these signs, however, they do tell us that the rapture, that precedes the tribulation, must be close.



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