Dake Bible Discussion BoardA LETTER TO THE MAN THAT BROUGHT ME TO MY FIRST CHRISTIAN CHURCH 41 YEARS AGO

General Discussion Forum devoted to the study of God's Word in Honor of Finis J. Dake.
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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: 1st Timothy 2:12: The Man

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Hill Top wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 11:39 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 9:19 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 11:18 pm
Everyone gets their turn to exhort, admonish, witness, glorify God, or prophesy.
Please don't confuse prophesying with leading a man or church.
My definition of prophecy (in agreement with Hagin, insofar as I remember) is speaking to others as inspired by the Spirit for the purposes of edification, exhortation, and comfort. It can contain foretelling, but more usually it is forth telling. Much preaching and teaching contains prophecy or is prophecy to a degree.
I agree.
Concerning women and prophecy in the church, 1st Corinthians gives some instructions concerning prayer and prophecy as it pertains to women in the church gathering. Head covering being a prerequisite, of course. This idea of head covering is understood differently in different cultures to which the Gospel has come.
Acts also has examples of women prophets. (Acts 2:17 and 21:9)
As for head coverings, what is there to understand?
Paul writes..."But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering." (1 Cor 11:15)
So, if a woman can prophesy in church, why can't she teach so long as her head is covered (her husband or father and the pastor permit her)?

Not permitting it when it can be done decently and in order is the same as not requiring all men everywhere to pray with uplifted hands.


Matthew 5:19-20 New King James Version
"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

Hill Top
He that Receiveth a Prophet in the Name of a Prophet shall Receive a Prophet's Reward
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Re: 1st Timothy 2:12: The Man

Post by Hill Top »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 7:46 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 11:39 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 9:19 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 11:18 pm
Everyone gets their turn to exhort, admonish, witness, glorify God, or prophesy.
Please don't confuse prophesying with leading a man or church.
My definition of prophecy (in agreement with Hagin, insofar as I remember) is speaking to others as inspired by the Spirit for the purposes of edification, exhortation, and comfort. It can contain foretelling, but more usually it is forth telling. Much preaching and teaching contains prophecy or is prophecy to a degree.
I agree.
Concerning women and prophecy in the church, 1st Corinthians gives some instructions concerning prayer and prophecy as it pertains to women in the church gathering. Head covering being a prerequisite, of course. This idea of head covering is understood differently in different cultures to which the Gospel has come.
Acts also has examples of women prophets. (Acts 2:17 and 21:9)
As for head coverings, what is there to understand?
Paul writes..."But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering." (1 Cor 11:15)
So, if a woman can prophesy in church, why can't she teach so long as her head is covered (her husband or father and the pastor permit her)?
Because prophesying isn't leading a man or men.
It is delivering what God has told one to say or, as someone said earlier, exhorting, comforting, ect.
It isn't usurping the authority of men.
Not permitting it when it can be done decently and in order is the same as not requiring all men everywhere to pray with uplifted hands.
You lost me there...



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Spiritblade Disciple
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What Does It Mean to Usurp?

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Hill Top wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 12:16 am
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 7:46 pm
So, if a woman can prophesy in church, why can't she teach so long as her head is covered (her husband or father and the pastor permit her)?
Because prophesying isn't leading a man or men.
It is delivering what God has told one to say or, as someone said earlier, exhorting, comforting, ect.
It isn't usurping the authority of men.
In your understanding, what does it mean to usurp something?


Matthew 5:19-20 New King James Version
"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

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Spiritblade Disciple
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Men Should Lift Up Their Hands When They Pray

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Hill Top wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 12:16 am
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 7:46 pm
Not permitting it when it can be done decently and in order is the same as not requiring all men everywhere to pray with uplifted hands.
You lost me there...
I kind of expected to.

Earlier in 1st Timothy 2, Paul says this:

1 Timothy 2:8 King James Version
I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

If women aren't ever permitted to teach men, then why is it right for men to pray anywhere without lifting up their hands?

If you, as a man, have ever failed to pray with uplifted hands, you have missed the mark when it comes to fulfilling this verse, especially if it is always wrong for a woman to teach a man.


Matthew 5:19-20 New King James Version
"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

Hill Top
He that Receiveth a Prophet in the Name of a Prophet shall Receive a Prophet's Reward
Posts: 1703
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: What Does It Mean to Usurp?

Post by Hill Top »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 2:11 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 12:16 am
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 7:46 pm
So, if a woman can prophesy in church, why can't she teach so long as her head is covered (her husband or father and the pastor permit her)?
Because prophesying isn't leading a man or men.
It is delivering what God has told one to say or, as someone said earlier, exhorting, comforting, ect.
It isn't usurping the authority of men.
In your understanding, what does it mean to usurp something?
It means "illegally/unrighteously taking the place of".
Women are not to do the duties assigned to men.



Hill Top
He that Receiveth a Prophet in the Name of a Prophet shall Receive a Prophet's Reward
Posts: 1703
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: Men Should Lift Up Their Hands When They Pray

Post by Hill Top »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 2:16 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 12:16 am
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 7:46 pm
Not permitting it when it can be done decently and in order is the same as not requiring all men everywhere to pray with uplifted hands.
You lost me there...
I kind of expected to.

Earlier in 1st Timothy 2, Paul says this:

1 Timothy 2:8 King James Version
I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
If women aren't ever permitted to teach men, then why is it right for men to pray anywhere without lifting up their hands?
If you, as a man, have ever failed to pray with uplifted hands, you have missed the mark when it comes to fulfilling this verse, especially if it is always wrong for a woman to teach a man.
Uplifted "holy" hands, not just "hands".
(This separates sinners from prayer, doesn't it?)

If you can see the wickedness of the one form of disobedience, why can't you see the wickedness of the other form of disobedience?



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