Dake Bible Discussion BoardA LETTER TO THE MAN THAT BROUGHT ME TO MY FIRST CHRISTIAN CHURCH 41 YEARS AGO

General Discussion Forum devoted to the study of God's Word in Honor of Finis J. Dake.
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Hill Top
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Re: Progressive Sanctification: What is it?

Post by Hill Top »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 10:01 am
Hill Top wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 11:30 pm
As long as you see sanctification as "progressive" you will never experience it.
What is your definition of "sanctification"?
Regarding progressive sanctification, see Dake's notes on 2nd Thessalonians 2:13, in Dake's Annotated Reference Bible.

For a most thorough treatment of the definition of sanctification, see Lesson Thrirty-Four of Dake's God's Plan For Man.
I simply use what the dictionary defines...Holy, consecrated, cleansed, set apart, atoned for, blessed.
All this happens at our baptism into Christ.



Hill Top
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Re: 1st Timothy 2:12: The Man

Post by Hill Top »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 10:06 am
Hill Top wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 11:30 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 6:42 pm
As to "what 'others' try teaching..."
I'm going to assume you mean women, from your response to Branham1965. I am not keen on women being bishops or deacons. Nor am I keen on a woman teaching or usurping authority over her own husband ("the man" not all men). But, I see no reason that women cannot be teachers, evangelists, prophetesses, or even apostles. Some women are smarter than some men.
The scriptural evidence, (1 Tim 2:12), doesn't dissuade you?
Notice that 1st Timothy 2:12 speaks of one man. Not men in general.
Sorry you can't take the example and apply it to all men.
This is speaking about the relationship between a wife to her husband. Verse thirteen confirms this thought.
As the example was from a time when there was only one man and one woman, will you also say only Adam had headship over his wife and it wasn't meant for all men thereafter?

If the women can lead the men, can the church lead God?
That is the logical conclusion of your thesis.



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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: Progressive Sanctification: What is it?

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 10:01 am
Hill Top wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 11:30 pm
As long as you see sanctification as "progressive" you will never experience it.
What is your definition of "sanctification"?
Regarding progressive sanctification, see Dake's notes on 2nd Thessalonians 2:13, in Dake's Annotated Reference Bible.

For a most thorough treatment of the definition of sanctification, see Lesson Thrirty-Four of Dake's God's Plan For Man.
Hill Top wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:14 am
I simply use what the dictionary defines...Holy, consecrated, cleansed, set apart, atoned for, blessed.
All this happens at our baptism into Christ.
That's certainly part of it.


Matthew 5:19-20 New King James Version
"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: 1st Timothy 2:12: The Man

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 10:06 am
Hill Top wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 11:30 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 6:42 pm
As to "what 'others' try teaching..."
I'm going to assume you mean women, from your response to Branham1965. I am not keen on women being bishops or deacons. Nor am I keen on a woman teaching or usurping authority over her own husband ("the man" not all men). But, I see no reason that women cannot be teachers, evangelists, prophetesses, or even apostles. Some women are smarter than some men.
The scriptural evidence, (1 Tim 2:12), doesn't dissuade you?
Notice that 1st Timothy 2:12 speaks of one man. Not men in general.
Hill Top wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:25 am
Sorry you can't take the example and apply it to all men.
I do not understand what you are trying to convey.


Matthew 5:19-20 New King James Version
"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: 1st Timothy 2:12: The Man

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 10:06 am
This is speaking about the relationship between a wife to her husband. Verse thirteen confirms this thought.
Hill Top wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:25 am
As the example was from a time when there was only one man and one woman, will you also say only Adam had headship over his wife and it wasn't meant for all men thereafter?

If the women can lead the men, can the church lead God?
That is the logical conclusion of your thesis.
It is meant within the relationship between a man and his wife.

Wesley's mother wasn't his wife.

Proverbs 1:8 New King James Version
My son, hear the instruction of your father, And do not forsake the law of your mother;

Proverbs 6:20 New King James Version
My son, keep your father's command, And do not forsake the law of your mother.


Matthew 5:19-20 New King James Version
"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

Hill Top
Blessings are Upon the Head of the Just
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Re: 1st Timothy 2:12: The Man

Post by Hill Top »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:12 am
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 10:06 am
This is speaking about the relationship between a wife to her husband. Verse thirteen confirms this thought.
Hill Top wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:25 am
As the example was from a time when there was only one man and one woman, will you also say only Adam had headship over his wife and it wasn't meant for all men thereafter?

If the women can lead the men, can the church lead God?
That is the logical conclusion of your thesis.
It is meant within the relationship between a man and his wife.
But that "picture" is of God and the church.
As God leads the church and is the authority therein, so too is the husband the leader and authority of the wife and household.
It does extend to the church body, too.



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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: 1st Timothy 2:12: The Man

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:12 am
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 10:06 am
This is speaking about the relationship between a wife to her husband. Verse thirteen confirms this thought.
Hill Top wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:25 am
As the example was from a time when there was only one man and one woman, will you also say only Adam had headship over his wife and it wasn't meant for all men thereafter?

If the women can lead the men, can the church lead God?
That is the logical conclusion of your thesis.
It is meant within the relationship between a man and his wife.
Hill Top wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 1:55 pm
But that "picture" is of God and the church.
As God leads the church and is the authority therein, so too is the husband the leader and authority of the wife and household.
It does extend to the church body, too.
Hill Top,
Does your church permit women to prophesy in a church meeting?


Matthew 5:19-20 New King James Version
"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

Hill Top
Blessings are Upon the Head of the Just
Posts: 1720
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: 1st Timothy 2:12: The Man

Post by Hill Top »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 9:27 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 9:12 am
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 10:06 am
This is speaking about the relationship between a wife to her husband. Verse thirteen confirms this thought.
Hill Top wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 12:25 am
As the example was from a time when there was only one man and one woman, will you also say only Adam had headship over his wife and it wasn't meant for all men thereafter?

If the women can lead the men, can the church lead God?
That is the logical conclusion of your thesis.
It is meant within the relationship between a man and his wife.
Hill Top wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 1:55 pm
But that "picture" is of God and the church.
As God leads the church and is the authority therein, so too is the husband the leader and authority of the wife and household.
It does extend to the church body, too.
Hill Top,
Does your church permit women to prophesy in a church meeting?
Everyone gets their turn to exhort, admonish, witness, glorify God, or prophesy.
Please don't confuse prophesying with leading a man or church.



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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: 1st Timothy 2:12: The Man

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Hill Top wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 11:18 pm
Everyone gets their turn to exhort, admonish, witness, glorify God, or prophesy.
Please don't confuse prophesying with leading a man or church.
My definition of prophecy (in agreement with Hagin, insofar as I remember) is speaking to others as inspired by the Spirit for the purposes of edification, exhortation, and comfort. It can contain foretelling, but more usually it is forth telling. Much preaching and teaching contains prophecy or is prophecy to a degree.

Concerning women and prophecy in the church, 1st Corinthians gives some instructions concerning prayer and prophecy as it pertains to women in the church gathering. Head covering being a prerequisite, of course. This idea of head covering is understood differently in different cultures to which the Gospel has come.


Matthew 5:19-20 New King James Version
"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

Hill Top
Blessings are Upon the Head of the Just
Posts: 1720
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: 1st Timothy 2:12: The Man

Post by Hill Top »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 9:19 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 11:18 pm
Everyone gets their turn to exhort, admonish, witness, glorify God, or prophesy.
Please don't confuse prophesying with leading a man or church.
My definition of prophecy (in agreement with Hagin, insofar as I remember) is speaking to others as inspired by the Spirit for the purposes of edification, exhortation, and comfort. It can contain foretelling, but more usually it is forth telling. Much preaching and teaching contains prophecy or is prophecy to a degree.
I agree.
Concerning women and prophecy in the church, 1st Corinthians gives some instructions concerning prayer and prophecy as it pertains to women in the church gathering. Head covering being a prerequisite, of course. This idea of head covering is understood differently in different cultures to which the Gospel has come.
Acts also has examples of women prophets. (Acts 2:17 and 21:9)
As for head coverings, what is there to understand?
Paul writes..."But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering." (1 Cor 11:15)



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