Dake Bible Discussion BoardShould Soldiers Stop Soldiering?

General Discussion Forum devoted to the study of God's Word in Honor of Finis J. Dake.
Post Reply
User avatar
branham1965
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 6519
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:18 am

Re: This Little Corona Virus Deal?

Post by branham1965 »

My Grandfather was a real decorated war hero.So was my Uncle Boche.They never talked about it.In fact i never knew Uncle Boche was even in the war until late in his life.

About the COVID-19 virus i do not think this pandemic is a joke.President Trump knows it is real.
I heard a preacher last Sunday say it was all a lie and only 200 people have died etc.



bibleman wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:23 am
branham1965 wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:34 am
Romans 13 answers this.So does 1 Timothy 2:1-3.
We need Government and a Military.
We need civil authorities.
Can you imagine "the greatest generation"staying home during World War Two??!!!
You questioned the greatest generation staying home during world War Two!

No I can't imagine that at all!

BUT think how shallow some "so called" Christians are - they stay home from church even in the best of times.

It is no wonder that they were so eager to close their churches during this little coronavirus deal.
Last edited by branham1965 on Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.



User avatar
Spiritblade Disciple
Moderator
Posts: 5509
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:27 pm

Re: Vigilantism? Or, Just Being a Good Neighbor?

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Hill Top wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:06 am
Vigilantism?
Trust in God instead.
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:57 pm
Let's reimagine the parable of the Luke 10:25-37.

What if there was another passerby who happened by well before the Samaritan, the Levite, or the Priest.

What if someone else (a former soldier) had passed by at the moment the man fell among the theives and was a witness, but he did nothing and just continued on his way because he didn't believe in using force to stop violence (even though the man had previously been trained by the Roman military and knew for certain that he could rescue the victim from the thieves if he were willing to seriously maim or even kill them). So, he prays and continues on his way.

Could we say that that man was the victim's neighbor? To me, he sounds more like the neighbor of the thieves.

It's kind of like when someone sees a brother or sister without food and clothing and they just pray for them, even though they have the ability to meet the need right then and there.
Hill Top wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:42 pm
As we are dealing with "what ifs", what if God protected the ex-soldier from ever being in a place where he would need to do violence?
That is, in fact, something I ask God for regularly.



What violence? Helping and defending someone against a brutal robbery is not violence.

You actually pray for God to protect you from being in places where you might be able to meet the needs of your neighbors?


Matthew 5:19-20 New King James Version
"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

User avatar
Spiritblade Disciple
Moderator
Posts: 5509
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:27 pm

Re: Soldiers & Government Officials Can't Be Christians

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:21 pm
Also, is it impossible for soldiers or government officials to be real Christians?


Hill Top wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:39 pm
I do feel that way.
Christians align themselves with God, and by swearing an allegiance to something else have turned that "something else" into an idol.



Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:03 pm
I'm saddened that you feel this way.


Hill Top wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:07 am
I'm not an idol worshiper, no matter what flag they fly.



Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:15 pm
What you call idol worship, I see as merely love of neighbor. That flag represents friends, neighbors, and family.

Can it become idol worship? Certainly. But, rightly understood, it is love of neighbor and the way to rightly demonstrate allegiance to it is through loving ones neighbors through service and sacrifice. Twist it up, and it can definitely be less than what it ought to be.


Hill Top wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:46 pm
It is now "twisted up".
It kills me when I see men forsaking their own families to fight over seas.
Where are their priorities?
Would God leave the church alone to fend for themselves while He left to do other things?
That is the picture you are trying to convince me is Godly behavior.


I can understand your concern about men (and women) forsaking their own families to fight over seas. But, Jesus, Himself, said He would leave the ninety-nine to rescue the one. So, yes, I believe He would leave the many to seek out the one that needs help.
Luke 15:4 New King James Version
"What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it?"
Loving our neighbors as ourselves requires loving them as we love our own family loves us, too. That might mean leaving your family to help or defend your neighbor's family.


Matthew 5:19-20 New King James Version
"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

Hill Top
Blessings are Upon the Head of the Just
Posts: 1720
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: Vigilantism? Or, Just Being a Good Neighbor?

Post by Hill Top »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:35 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:06 am
Vigilantism?
Trust in God instead.
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:57 pm
Let's reimagine the parable of the Luke 10:25-37.

What if there was another passerby who happened by well before the Samaritan, the Levite, or the Priest.

What if someone else (a former soldier) had passed by at the moment the man fell among the theives and was a witness, but he did nothing and just continued on his way because he didn't believe in using force to stop violence (even though the man had previously been trained by the Roman military and knew for certain that he could rescue the victim from the thieves if he were willing to seriously maim or even kill them). So, he prays and continues on his way.

Could we say that that man was the victim's neighbor? To me, he sounds more like the neighbor of the thieves.

It's kind of like when someone sees a brother or sister without food and clothing and they just pray for them, even though they have the ability to meet the need right then and there.
Hill Top wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:42 pm
As we are dealing with "what ifs", what if God protected the ex-soldier from ever being in a place where he would need to do violence?
That is, in fact, something I ask God for regularly.



What violence? Helping and defending someone against a brutal robbery is not violence.

You actually pray for God to protect you from being in places where you might be able to meet the needs of your neighbors?
I pray to God for the grace to avoid situations where I would need to do violence.
I know what I can do...violently.



User avatar
Spiritblade Disciple
Moderator
Posts: 5509
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:27 pm

Re: Is Violence Ever Necessary?

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Hill Top wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:35 pm
I pray to God for the grace to avoid situations where I would need to do violence.
I know what I can do...violently.
I think we are still using different definitions of 'violence.'

I don't think that violence, in the sense that John the Baptist instructed against, is ever necessary.

However, you seem to be saying that violence is sometimes necessary, but you ask God to keep you out of such situations because you believe all violence to be sinful, not recognizing that the possibility of different contextual definitions whereby John was forbidding the soldiers practice of a specific type of violence, but not all types.

So, do you believe violence of any type is sinful, but that sinful violence is sometimes necessary?


Matthew 5:19-20 New King James Version
"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

Hill Top
Blessings are Upon the Head of the Just
Posts: 1720
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: Is Violence Ever Necessary?

Post by Hill Top »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:35 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:35 pm
I pray to God for the grace to avoid situations where I would need to do violence.
I know what I can do...violently.
I think we are still using different definitions of 'violence.'

I don't think that violence, in the sense that John the Baptist instructed against, is ever necessary.

However, you seem to be saying that violence is sometimes necessary, but you ask God to keep you out of such situations because you believe all violence to be sinful, not recognizing that the possibility of different contextual definitions whereby John was forbidding the soldiers practice of a specific type of violence, but not all types.

So, do you believe violence of any type is sinful, but that sinful violence is sometimes necessary?
I can think of no sort of violence that is not sinful.
We are to turn the other cheek, and pray for those who spitefully use us.
I don't believe violence is ever necessary.
Trust in God, not in weapons.



User avatar
Ironman
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 2997
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:29 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Trust in God, Not Weapons

Post by Ironman »

These men all trusted in God.

James (Martyred: 44–45 A.D.)
Peter (Martyred: ca. 64 A.D.)
Andrew (Martyred: 70 A.D.)
Thomas (Martyred: 70 A.D.)
Philip (Martyred: 54 A.D.)
Matthew (Martyred: 60–70 A.D.)
Nathanael (Bartholomew) (Martyred: 70 A.D.)
James the Lesser (Martyred: 63 A.D.)
Simon the Zealot (Martyred: 74 A.D.)
Judas Thaddeus (Martyred: 72 A.D.)
Matthias (Martyred: 70 A.D.)
John (Martyred: 95 A.D.)
Paul (Martyred: 67 A.D.)


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

Hill Top
Blessings are Upon the Head of the Just
Posts: 1720
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: Trust in God, Not Weapons

Post by Hill Top »

Ironman wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:24 pm
These men all trusted in God.

James (Martyred: 44–45 A.D.)
Peter (Martyred: ca. 64 A.D.)
Andrew (Martyred: 70 A.D.)
Thomas (Martyred: 70 A.D.)
Philip (Martyred: 54 A.D.)
Matthew (Martyred: 60–70 A.D.)
Nathanael (Bartholomew) (Martyred: 70 A.D.)
James the Lesser (Martyred: 63 A.D.)
Simon the Zealot (Martyred: 74 A.D.)
Judas Thaddeus (Martyred: 72 A.D.)
Matthias (Martyred: 70 A.D.)
John (Martyred: 95 A.D.)
Paul (Martyred: 67 A.D.)
What did that have to do with the OP?



User avatar
Spiritblade Disciple
Moderator
Posts: 5509
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:27 pm

Re: Is Violence Ever Necessary?

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:35 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:35 pm
I pray to God for the grace to avoid situations where I would need to do violence.
I know what I can do...violently.
I think we are still using different definitions of 'violence.'

I don't think that violence, in the sense that John the Baptist instructed against, is ever necessary.

However, you seem to be saying that violence is sometimes necessary, but you ask God to keep you out of such situations because you believe all violence to be sinful, not recognizing that the possibility of different contextual definitions whereby John was forbidding the soldiers practice of a specific type of violence, but not all types.

So, do you believe violence of any type is sinful, but that sinful violence is sometimes necessary?


Hill Top wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:14 pm
I can think of no sort of violence that is not sinful.
We are to turn the other cheek, and pray for those who spitefully use us.
I don't believe violence is ever necessary.
Trust in God, not in weapons.
Thank you.


Matthew 5:19-20 New King James Version
"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

Grandfather
Bless the Lord with All Thine Soul and Forget Not Who Forgiveth All Thine Iniquities
Posts: 975
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:51 pm

Re: Is Violence Ever Necessary?

Post by Grandfather »

Hill Top wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:14 pm
I can think of no sort of violence that is not sinful.
We are to turn the other cheek, and pray for those who spitefully use us.
I don't believe violence is ever necessary.
Trust in God, not in weapons.
Just a couple of questions.

What would you say about the violence displayed by Jesus at the purging of the Temple? Matt 21:12-17
What do you say about the scripture And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. (Matt 11:12)



Post Reply