Dake Bible Discussion BoardLevel of understanding - mind of Christ

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luchnia
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Level of understanding - mind of Christ

Post by luchnia »

A scripture that mentions the mind of Christ is often pulled out of context to support various doctrines and usually used improperly. That scripture is 1 Cor 2:16 which got me to thinking of another angle of the understanding of Christ that I think we often fail to consider when using that text.

That angle is understanding other "realms" such as principalities and powers, realm of intellect, voice to God's word, on and on it goes. The realms we don't see with our eyes, yet exist just as the ones we do see. Christ would have encompassed all facets of His understanding, correct? Jesus grew, saw, knew many things that we fail to include in our understanding. What did Jesus fully know before the cross as a man?

If we speak the things of the Holy Spirit why do we not consider everything that exist within the realms we have knowledge of from God's word from the very things that Jesus has told? Consider Jesus' prayer in the garden before going to the cross that we have discussed in another thread. When Jesus was praying and since He is Jesus and had His mind (understanding, mindset, etc.), He would have encompassed all realms of which He knew.

It is my opinion, we focus more on what we see and not what we do not see, thus our thinking is not utilizing the mind/understanding of Christ like we often like to think we do. You could state the "wholeness" of the mind of Christ. We lack full examination by the Spirit. To me it shows that we have not transformed our minds as much as we think we have and we have given light understanding to what the mind of Christ really is all about.

A simple, but important piece is often missing and that is purpose when we try to understand things that Jesus said. Jesus had full purpose within His understanding and He knew the other realms. Nothing He would say or do would compromise His purpose of doing God's will. Could this be why we can fail to see what may have really taken place in Jesus mind? How greater would our understanding be if we simply would see farther into all things by the Spirit!


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Grandfather
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Re: Level of understanding - mind of Christ

Post by Grandfather »

You raised some valid points. One of my concerns when the "argument" of "We have the mind of Christ" is presented comes with the "checks and balances" that need to occur.

Let me begin with a disclaimer. I understand that the truth of God's word is not determined by popular vote, but at the same time I am cautious when only one person is saying something and that "something" is outside of the norm for orthodox beliefs. Christian history is full of people that claimed some special revelation and that one needed "the mind of Christ" to understand it. Paul, with his revelation of the Gospel, went to the church in Jerusalem to verify it.



Hill Top
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Re: Level of understanding - mind of Christ

Post by Hill Top »

Grandfather wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:34 am
You raised some valid points. One of my concerns when the "argument" of "We have the mind of Christ" is presented comes with the "checks and balances" that need to occur.
I agree with that.
If our mind of Christ is different than His mind of Christ there is a problem.



Grandfather
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Re: Level of understanding - mind of Christ

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Hill Top wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:26 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:34 am
You raised some valid points. One of my concerns when the "argument" of "We have the mind of Christ" is presented comes with the "checks and balances" that need to occur.
I agree with that.
If our mind of Christ is different than His mind of Christ there is a problem.
Indeed, saying one has the mind of Christ and actually having it are two different things.



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luchnia
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Re: Level of understanding - mind of Christ

Post by luchnia »

Grandfather wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:56 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:26 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:34 am
You raised some valid points. One of my concerns when the "argument" of "We have the mind of Christ" is presented comes with the "checks and balances" that need to occur.
I agree with that.
If our mind of Christ is different than His mind of Christ there is a problem.
Indeed, saying one has the mind of Christ and actually having it are two different things.
Most that quote the term could not pass the "checks and balances".

Do you think it should be more like, we press toward the mind of Christ and grow to His way of thinking? I understand using the term mind of Christ, yet I think what Paul was implying was different to how that verse is used today and mainly because of pulling it out of the context of what Paul intended.

Even though I have used the term about myself, I know I have not arrived by any means yet I focus more on His mindset. It is more a mindset and a way of thinking that is the mind of Christ, don't you think?

One other thing to consider is that most replace the "we" with "I" and that completely changes it to mean an individual thing as if the person is somehow holding the mind of Christ to support their doctrines. Wonder what Paul meant by using "we"?


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Grandfather
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Re: Level of understanding - mind of Christ

Post by Grandfather »

luchnia wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:01 am
Grandfather wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:56 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:26 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:34 am
You raised some valid points. One of my concerns when the "argument" of "We have the mind of Christ" is presented comes with the "checks and balances" that need to occur.
I agree with that.
If our mind of Christ is different than His mind of Christ there is a problem.
Indeed, saying one has the mind of Christ and actually having it are two different things.
Most that quote the term could not pass the "checks and balances".

Do you think it should be more like, we press toward the mind of Christ and grow to His way of thinking? I understand using the term mind of Christ, yet I think what Paul was implying was different to how that verse is used today and mainly because of pulling it out of the context of what Paul intended.

Even though I have used the term about myself, I know I have not arrived by any means yet I focus more on His mindset. It is more a mindset and a way of thinking that is the mind of Christ, don't you think?

One other thing to consider is that most replace the "we" with "I" and that completely changes it to mean an individual thing as if the person is somehow holding the mind of Christ to support their doctrines. Wonder what Paul meant by using "we"?
Good stuff to think on



Hill Top
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Re: Level of understanding - mind of Christ

Post by Hill Top »

luchnia wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:01 am
Grandfather wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:56 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:26 pm
Grandfather wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:34 am
You raised some valid points. One of my concerns when the "argument" of "We have the mind of Christ" is presented comes with the "checks and balances" that need to occur.
I agree with that.
If our mind of Christ is different than His mind of Christ there is a problem.
Indeed, saying one has the mind of Christ and actually having it are two different things.
Most that quote the term could not pass the "checks and balances".
As my personal, evangelical, interactions with others are nearly always in regard to freedom from sin. those who still commit sin can in no wise say they have the mind of Christ.
So I have never encountered the situation.
Do you think it should be more like, we press toward the mind of Christ and grow to His way of thinking? I understand using the term mind of Christ, yet I think what Paul was implying was different to how that verse is used today and mainly because of pulling it out of the context of what Paul intended.
As we are to grow in grace and knowledge daily, your point seems valid.
But it worries me that some would still have any other mind than Christ's after being reborn of God's seed.
Even though I have used the term about myself, I know I have not arrived by any means yet I focus more on His mindset. It is more a mindset and a way of thinking that is the mind of Christ, don't you think?
If you haven't "arrived" yet, what will be the sign you have arrived when it does happen?
One other thing to consider is that most replace the "we" with "I" and that completely changes it to mean an individual thing as if the person is somehow holding the mind of Christ to support their doctrines. Wonder what Paul meant by using "we"?
We should all be thinking alike, with no variations. One mind. His mind.
Check the context.



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luchnia
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Re: Level of understanding - mind of Christ

Post by luchnia »

Hill Top wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:12 pm
We should all be thinking alike, with no variations. One mind. His mind.
Check the context.
How does the mind of Christ think? Can you explain what thinking alike with no variations means? Do you mean we all reason the same way and come to the same conclusions? How does one know what the mind, or thinking, of Christ is compared to their own way of thinking? I can think of many examples where people disagree, so does that mean one of them doesn't have the mind of Christ, or both of them?


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Hill Top
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Re: Level of understanding - mind of Christ

Post by Hill Top »

luchnia wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:49 am
Hill Top wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:12 pm
We should all be thinking alike, with no variations. One mind. His mind.
Check the context.
How does the mind of Christ think?
With purity and love, first for God and then for neighbor.
Can you explain what thinking alike with no variations means? Do you mean we all reason the same way and come to the same conclusions?
Yes, in things doctrinal.
Buying a Ford or a Chevy isn't an indication of our thinking as Christ thinks.
How does one know what the mind, or thinking, of Christ is compared to their own way of thinking?
By the Spirit within the converted.
By what scripture declares.
By our God given conscience.
I can think of many examples where people disagree, so does that mean one of them doesn't have the mind of Christ, or both of them?
If we are talking about biblical things...then one or the other is not of God.
How can one man say, for instance, that baptism isn't necessary for salvation when Jesus said "he who believeth and is baptized shall be saved"?
Isn't he determined to be "not of Christ" by what the bible says?



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luchnia
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Re: Level of understanding - mind of Christ

Post by luchnia »

Hill Top wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:12 pm
I can think of many examples where people disagree, so does that mean one of them doesn't have the mind of Christ, or both of them?
If we are talking about biblical things...then one or the other is not of God.
How can one man say, for instance, that baptism isn't necessary for salvation when Jesus said "he who believeth and is baptized shall be saved"?
Isn't he determined to be "not of Christ" by what the bible says?
I think this is where your understanding of this presents a challenge for you. I believe that Christ died and rose again from the dead which indicates my salvation. If you believe that then you are saved as well. That would mean we are both saved and of Christ, yet we disagree on some things.

If I believe the immersion into Christ has nothing to do with water, in your view it does have to do with water because of how you perceive the scriptures. We differ on this, so according to your opinion, I am not of Christ by what the bible says because of your understanding of what the bible says.

I would think you could see the dilemma and the danger in holding the position that those that disagree with your view of the bible are not of Christ.


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