Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Should Rich Christians Give Away All Their Money?

[luchnia]

There is an abundance of thought missing from this discussion.

First, the question you asked does not address the definition of RICH. In America even what we consider poor is richer than the vast majority of the rest of the world.

After that, nothing addresses obedience - perhaps it should ask if Christian, regardless of their wealth, should be willing to give away all of their money. Another question might be how much is enough? Another question is what is one doing with their wealth to advance the kingdom of God.

I would welcome a discussion on these matters, one that avoids using the correct words but displays the attitude of the heart.

What are your thoughts about Abraham, one who was very rich in gold and silver and had a private army? Then we have Solomon of untold wealth. King David was not a poor man. Of course, finally Jesus who knew His wealth and owned it all from the Father and wasn't afraid to talk about it. He paid the taxes of two men from a fishes mouth.

I think it all boils down to were one places his heart when it comes to riches and maybe obedience plays into this. Saints know loving money is a dead end path. Jesus words to the rich young ruler were most interesting, yet Jesus never taught it was wrong to have money. I think it was all about balance.

I am not opposed to people being wealthy. And I will acknowledge the Bible tells us of men who served God and were very well off. However, it is wrong to attribute wealth or financial blessing with the blessing of God. And I agree, Jesus never taught it was wrong to have wealth.

That being said, the Bible does talk about the deceitfulness of riches. It does talk about being a steward of money and using it for the advancement of the Kingdom. It does talk about using the position of wealth to help the community around you. And it does question the hoarding of money to oneself.

And while you mentioned those that scripture calls rich, we should also not that Jesus asked someone to look after his mother, there was no trust set up for her. He was buried in a borrowed tomb and couldn't afford his own. The Apostles were not rich, Paul had to work to support his ministry. Now, I am not promoting vows of poverty.

I simply believe that in God's economy prosperity means something different than what the western church world assumes.

I agree about deceitfulness of riches and so on, but I believe God's economy is beyond our imagination especially when you look at the heavenly city adorned as it is. In my thinking we would struggle to even comprehend what transparent gold is and the enormous pearls on the gates of the city based on what we know today as being rich.

I wonder though why you think that attributing financial blessings to God is wrong and why you think Jesus was poor simply because there was a choice that He follow a certain path that He did during that time frame.

[Grandfather]

... I am not promoting vows of poverty.

I simply believe that in God's economy prosperity means something different than what the western church world assumes.

I agree about deceitfulness of riches and so on, but I believe God's economy is beyond our imagination especially when you look at the heavenly city adorned as it is. In my thinking we would struggle to even comprehend what transparent gold is and the enormous pearls on the gates of the city based on what we know today as being rich.

I wonder though why you think that attributing financial blessings to God is wrong and why you think Jesus was poor simply because there was a choice that He follow a certain path that He did during that time frame.

To be clear, everything belongs to God. As joint-heirs with Christ, it belongs also to those that are born again.
That being said, I find it interesting that you quickly point to the "riches" in heaven, but neglect the value of a human soul. Remember Jesus gave up those riches to save souls and today more Christians value their riches than they do saving souls.

Now, to answer your questions.

1) why you think that attributing financial blessings to God is wrong

The Pharisees were very rich... was that a result of God's blessings? Tax collectors were rich, but at least one acknowledged it came about through cheating people. That surely was not God's blessing? So, allow me again... financial prosperity is not an indication of God's blessing. Do you think God's blessing is on George Soros, Bill Gates, Mark Z, simply because they have large bank accounts? I recall a RICH young ruler who had great wealth but apparently did not have the blessing of God.

2) why you think Jesus was poor

Where did I say he was poor? Unless you consider the only option for not being rich is to be poor. I don't think that is the only option, however.

[luchnia]

To be clear, everything belongs to God. As joint-heirs with Christ, it belongs also to those that are born again.
That being said, I find it interesting that you quickly point to the "riches" in heaven, but neglect the value of a human soul. Remember Jesus gave up those riches to save souls and today more Christians value their riches than they do saving souls.

The value of a human soul is worth more than material riches, but that is not the subject of this thread.

[Grandfather]

To be clear, everything belongs to God. As joint-heirs with Christ, it belongs also to those that are born again.
That being said, I find it interesting that you quickly point to the "riches" in heaven, but neglect the value of a human soul. Remember Jesus gave up those riches to save souls and today more Christians value their riches than they do saving souls.

The value of a human soul is worth more than material riches, but that is not the subject of this thread.

Really? In Gods economy do you think He is more interested in material riches or saving souls? Scripture says he than wins souls is wise!not he that is rich is wise.

[luchnia]

To be clear, everything belongs to God. As joint-heirs with Christ, it belongs also to those that are born again.
That being said, I find it interesting that you quickly point to the "riches" in heaven, but neglect the value of a human soul. Remember Jesus gave up those riches to save souls and today more Christians value their riches than they do saving souls.

The value of a human soul is worth more than material riches, but that is not the subject of this thread.

Really? In Gods economy do you think He is more interested in material riches or saving souls? Scripture says he than wins souls is wise!not he that is rich is wise.

You must have misread my statement. I never stated that God is more interested in material riches than saving souls. I merely pointed out the subject of this thread was about Christians giving away all their money. My assumption was that Bibleman was primarily dealing with money because of the title.

Truth is it is ALL important from material wealth to eternal life to God or He would not have recorded it for us and also let us know that Jesus wealth was above all men as well as His delegated power.

Some love money more than what is important such as the rich young ruler. Jesus never once told the rich young ruler his problem was his wealth, but you can see from Jesus words it was his love for it thus the reason for needing to give it away. If he had not of loved his wealth, he would have been able to keep it. It is all about balance and what the spirit of man is focused on.

[Grandfather]

Here is the principle for the way we are to live our lives: 1 Peter 1:15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,

So then based on this principle it would be wrong for us to "give, aid, assist, or make possible) anything were sin would be involved.

So never give the poor anything that could cause or lead to sin by the poor.

Example: If the poor are poor because they refuse to work... then we do NOT give them food if there are jobs available and they are able to work. If we did then we would be assisting them to violate God's laws concerning work.

Interesting. How does one pre-determine the actions of another? You said we should not give them money if there are jobs available and they are able to work. What constitutes "being able". Some are physically able, but because they have no resident home address they are unemployable. Some do not have steady and reliable transportation and employers do not see public transportation as viable. Some have criminal records or a history of substance abuse. Again unemployable. Some, after being turned down several times during a day turn to the only thing they know that will not reject them.

The scripture says he that gives to the poor lends to the Lord and He will repay. Nowhere in that passage does it command to examine their motives, lifestyles, choices, etc. before giving. Besides, it appears that you expect the result of your giving to yield immediate results. Sadly it seldom works that way.

Does that mean that you will send me a thousand dollars - no questions asked?

Does that mean you became poor in the last month?

Just give it! You said: "Nowhere in that passage does it command to examine their motives,"

Ok, so now one excludes context. I expected a little more from some readers, perhaps I was wrong to do so. The context is giving to the POOR. Somehow I think you understand that, but are trying to "stir the pot" - so I will heed the advice of scripture. Answer not a fool according to his folly.

Notice I said: "they are able to work"

What made you think that "able" did not include the ability to get to work, among other things.

You should have not been narrow minded in your reading of my post.

[Grandfather]

Perhaps the better question would be... Is God pleased with what you have done with the riches He has entrusted you with? Are you using it to expand His kingdom, or secure your future? (Those do not have to be mutually exclusive)

[branham1965]

Most people i know whether Christian or otherwise keep their money in their pockets.

They will use every excuse in the book to do so.Even wrest Bible verses to do it.

I don't buy that tightwad stuff.

[luchnia]

Perhaps the better question would be... Is God pleased with what you have done with the riches He has entrusted you with? Are you using it to expand His kingdom, or secure your future? (Those do not have to be mutually exclusive)

Great questions and I believe it all depends on how riches are defined according to God's word and not man's definition of what that means. If we consider Solomon and Abraham as a level set of what it means to be rich, then who can we compare them with in today's terms? A rich Arab sheik? If you consider the time frame and value of what Abraham had compared to today, I don't think anyone can really compare.

In my opinion, I think God is more concerned with the man that loves his possessions more (rich young ruler) due to the fate of his eternal life thus the reason Jesus told the rich young ruler what he needed to do. He needed to sever that love he had for possessions or you could state the hold his possessions had on him.

[Grandfather]

Perhaps the better question would be... Is God pleased with what you have done with the riches He has entrusted you with? Are you using it to expand His kingdom, or secure your future? (Those do not have to be mutually exclusive)

Great questions and I believe it all depends on how riches are defined according to God's word and not man's definition of what that means. If we consider Solomon and Abraham as a level set of what it means to be rich, then who can we compare them with in today's terms? A rich Arab sheik? If you consider the time frame and value of what Abraham had compared to today, I don't think anyone can really compare.

In my opinion, I think God is more concerned with the man that loves his possessions more (rich young ruler) due to the fate of his eternal life thus the reason Jesus told the rich young ruler what he needed to do. He needed to sever that love he had for possessions or you could state the hold his possessions had on him.

Riches is a relative term. Most people in America are considered "rich" by the majority of the world. But re-read my statement. I did not say if you were rich, but instead ask if God is pleased with what you have done with the riches He has entrusted you with. He may have entrusted you will great riches, or little riches. Perhaps I should say "5 talents or 1 talent" Either way, the truth is that God is going to hold us accountable.