Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ KEEP REPENTING OR ETERNAL SECURITY?

[bibleman]

Dake says we must repent and confess every sin to regain our born again status or constantly get born again. Calvin and the Baptists say once saved always saved. Andrew Wommack, who I highly esteem, agrees with the Baptists and Andrew is a very sharp Word-Faith teacher. Technically, it's almost impossible to confess every sin which would include sins of omission. The Baptists say if you confess every time you sin then you are putting yourself under the law and it is impossible to keep the law. My answer to who is saved has always been, "He who is led by the Spirit of God he is a son of God." But who hears from God perfectly? We all hear God to different degrees. One can say that John was a Judieiser of the Jerusalem Jews who never received Paul's gospel of grace and not having to keep the law and therefore, 1 John 1:8,9 doesn't apply to Christians. I've been away from the Board and hope this isn't too redundant. What say you?

If 1 John 1:8,9 doesn't apply to Christians.....

What does a person do that has been serving God for years... yet falls off the wagon, gets drunk and has a sexual relationship with someone other than his wife on a business trip?

Am I hearing you right that... that person does NOT need to confess that sin to God and ask for forgiveness?

[Grandfather]

One can say that John was a Judieiser of the Jerusalem Jews who never received Paul's gospel of grace and not having to keep the law and therefore, 1 John 1:8,9 doesn't apply to Christians. I've been away from the Board and hope this isn't too redundant. What say you?

1 - Who can that John was a Judieiser who never received Paul's gospel of grace?

2 - If 1 John does not apply to Christians, then why does John use "we" in the context that they would have understood he, John, was including many of them in the "we"? Was John not a Christian, the language includes him in the "if we confess" it is not "if you confess."

[Hill Top]

Dake says we must repent and confess every sin to regain our born again status or constantly get born again.

Hi, dolph.
If one's repentance from sin is real, there will be no more sin.
Repeat repentances show the first, second, third, etc repentances from sin were just lies to God.
Turn from all sin...permanently, and the rest of your post would be unnecessary.

My answer to "who is saved" has always been, "He who is led by the Spirit of God he is a son of God."

I agree, but keep in mind that there is still a final judgement ahead before we can "claim" we are saved.

But who hears from God perfectly? We all hear God to different degrees.

Those "who are led by the Spirit of God" hear from God perfectly.
God doesn't leave us hanging from a thread in time of need.

One can say that John was a Judieiser of the Jerusalem Jews who never received Paul's gospel of grace and not having to keep the law and therefore, 1 John 1:8,9 doesn't apply to Christians.
What say you?

On what do you base the "John was a Judaizer" supposition?

[luchnia]

Leon, thanks for replying. I'm not saying there is an easy answer. Do you agree with Mr. Dake that every time we sin we lose our salvation until we repent and confess our sin to Jesus and then are born again? I am saying this is one of the toughest questions in scripture or am I making too much of a fuss about it? My position is that we live our lives in the closest walk we can and when we mess up and sin to repent and confess that sin and are then back in God's good standing. I think the Baptists position of eternal security is wrong because it gives Christians too much license to sin. But Dake's understanding that we lose our sonship every time we sin and must be born again, maybe several times a day, week or month doesn't ring true, putting me at odds with the master. (small m)

What sin will not damn one's soul? Do you think the saints that fell and rejected Jesus to the point of apostasy will inherit eternal life in God?

[Grandfather]

Hi Luchinia. No question that the gospel of grace was given to ALL people, including the Jews. The first place Paul went to when on his missionary trips was the local synagogue. One can make the case that believers of all ages were saved by faith in the One True God. Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Even the Jews were not saved by keeping the Law. My latest position is that know one knows exactly where God is going to draw the line of salvation. It will be different for different ages and locations. For 1500 years after Christ most people never heard the gospel and even fewer had a Bible. The same can be said about the past 500 years except for the West. But if we talk only about Americans the past 3-400 years including today God may hold us to a higher standard. Only 10% of people calling themselves Christians in the US have a "Christian world view". Since Paul said no one can keep the law and most people have no idea how holy God is, who can draw the line for what sins most be confessed to be saved? Have all of us confessed ALL of our sins? I am positive we have not without going into detail. Dake says we lose our salvation when we sin and must be born again and again. I think this is too extreme partly because we aren't even aware of many of our daily sins. My bottom line: Have a personal relationship with Jesus and when you sin, repent and confess it to Jesus, our High Priest. I also believe God put I John in our Bibles and it should be used. We are saved by our faith in God and not by keeping the Law. I think Dake is too extreme to one side and the once saved always saved crowd too extreme to the other. This is not a black and white issue.

In the 50,000 foot view, I agree wholeheartedly with you.

[Hill Top]

Hilltop wrote, If one's repentance from sin is real, there will be no more sin.
Repeat repentances show the first, second, third, etc repentances from sin were just lies to God.
Turn from all sin...permanently, and the rest of your post would be unnecessary.

Hilltop, are you saying you never sin?????? That it's possible for a true Christian not to sin????? Come on man!

That is indeed what I'm saying.
Jesus said..."And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (John 8:32-34)
The truth shall free you from committing sins.
Sinners are in servitude to sin, and as Jesus also said "No man can serve two masters...", sinners cannot serve God.

[bibleman]

Hilltop wrote, If one's repentance from sin is real, there will be no more sin.
Repeat repentances show the first, second, third, etc repentances from sin were just lies to God.
Turn from all sin...permanently, and the rest of your post would be unnecessary.

Hilltop, are you saying you never sin?????? That it's possible for a true Christian not to sin????? Come on man!

That is indeed what I'm saying.
Jesus said..."And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (John 8:32-34)
The truth shall free you from committing sins.
Sinners are in servitude to sin, and as Jesus also said "No man can serve two masters...", sinners cannot serve God.

OK got a question for you my friend.

You were asked "Hilltop, are you saying you never sin?????? That it's possible for a true Christian not to sin????? Come on man!"

You said: "That is indeed what I'm saying."

Now I am not advocating sin and I believe that Christians can certainly walk free from Death Penalty sins if they choose to do so.

BUT If Christians never sin then what is the purpose of this passage?

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

[Hill Top]

Hilltop, so glad to hear you have never sinned since making Jesus your Lord and Savior.

Thanks, but the glory is God's.
Thank Him for making it possible.

[Hill Top]

OK got a question for you my friend.

You were asked "Hilltop, are you saying you never sin?????? That it's possible for a true Christian not to sin????? Come on man!"
You said: "That is indeed what I'm saying."
Now I am not advocating sin and I believe that Christians can certainly walk free from Death Penalty sins if they choose to do so.
BUT If Christians never sin then what is the purpose of this passage?

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Please allow me to para-phrase the verses...
"I wrote this so you don't commit sin.
If any man not yet in Christ sins, we have an Advocate they can rely on.
For as He paid for our sins, He can pay for the sinner's too.

The next two verses identify who "knows Christ-God",..."And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

If that hasn't answered your question, let me know.

[Hill Top]

Hilltop, if God expected us to be perfect then why did he give Christians I John 1:9?

To get us started in our Christian lives on the right foot.
Confession of sins originated with John's baptism unto repentance, and can still be used today in the initial stage of conversion.
It isn't a "bandage" for ongoing signs of a false repentance from sin.

If God didn't expect us to be perfect, Jesus would never have commanded..."Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48)