Dake Bible Discussion BoardCalling Jesus a liar?

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branham1965
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Re: Calling Jesus a liar?

Post by branham1965 »

What you forget is that Reverend Dake was a Pastor.

He did not butcher people.He helped them and blessed them.



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luchnia
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Re: Calling Jesus a liar?

Post by luchnia »

branham1965 wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:02 am
What you forget is that Reverend Dake was a Pastor.

He did not butcher people.He helped them and blessed them.
Standing against sin just as Jesus and other great men of God have does seem harsh, but for God's love one must stand against sin with every ounce of strength within them. It is paramount for the salvation of man. Standing against sin is not about destroying and condemning the person - it is about setting them free from satan's grasp to serve God.

From my studies of Dake's videos and books, there is no indication that he accepted, condoned, or tolerated sin in any manner. Now maybe you have some factual insight otherwise, and if so, please share it.


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Re: Calling Jesus a liar?

Post by Grandfather »

luchnia wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:33 pm
branham1965 wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:02 am
What you forget is that Reverend Dake was a Pastor.

He did not butcher people.He helped them and blessed them.
Standing against sin just as Jesus and other great men of God have does seem harsh, but for God's love one must stand against sin with every ounce of strength within them. It is paramount for the salvation of man. Standing against sin is not about destroying and condemning the person - it is about setting them free from satan's grasp to serve God.

From my studies of Dake's videos and books, there is no indication that he accepted, condoned, or tolerated sin in any manner. Now maybe you have some factual insight otherwise, and if so, please share it.
Allow an honest question. Was there ever a point in your Christian walk that, looking back, you can now identify as sinful but at the time you did not recognize it as such? Perhaps you even defended it as non-sinful to someone who pointed it out as sin to you?



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luchnia
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Re: Calling Jesus a liar?

Post by luchnia »

Grandfather wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:18 pm
luchnia wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:33 pm
branham1965 wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:02 am
What you forget is that Reverend Dake was a Pastor.

He did not butcher people.He helped them and blessed them.
Standing against sin just as Jesus and other great men of God have does seem harsh, but for God's love one must stand against sin with every ounce of strength within them. It is paramount for the salvation of man. Standing against sin is not about destroying and condemning the person - it is about setting them free from satan's grasp to serve God.

From my studies of Dake's videos and books, there is no indication that he accepted, condoned, or tolerated sin in any manner. Now maybe you have some factual insight otherwise, and if so, please share it.
Allow an honest question. Was there ever a point in your Christian walk that, looking back, you can now identify as sinful but at the time you did not recognize it as such? Perhaps you even defended it as non-sinful to someone who pointed it out as sin to you?
Wonderful question! I think this is worthy of a separate thread. It has been way over forty years ago, yet I don't think I can identify anything as sinful. I can identify many points of big time ignorance in my growth. If ignorance is sin, then I have certainly at times achieved that.

I did not allow others to convince me of sin. One thing that might have been wrong was burying myself in God's word and hardly coming up for air. I think if anything that was an area that went in way deep. I often studied to the point of exhaustion. I have always had a strong will and denied darkness when it attempted to war against me.

I was one of those guys that made the choice and that was that. Things like drinking, smoking, cursing, chasing women, etc., I stopped them cold turkey never to return. Each time I received light, I absorbed it. Well over 40 years clean now - praise God. Perfection? - no where close! Free from sin? According to God's word, yes. Jesus is made unto me righteousness, wisdom, sanctification, and redemption :)

I think the sin issue is one of the most misunderstood of biblical subjects. I think Dake does a good job defining sin. I see sin much differently than I used to especially after absorbing God's word over the many years and learning more about sin and its master. I can understand more and more why God loathes evil.


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Grandfather
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Re: Calling Jesus a liar?

Post by Grandfather »

luchnia wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:06 pm
Wonderful question! I think this is worthy of a separate thread. It has been way over forty years ago, yet I don't think I can identify anything as sinful. I can identify many points of big time ignorance in my growth. If ignorance is sin, then I have certainly at times achieved that.
I'm glad you thought the question was thought-provoking.

I just want to make sure I understand you, or that you understood the intent of the question.

If you went back in time and met your 40 year younger self, are you telling me that you would approve of all his actions? That there would be nothing that would cause you to say... in "X" numbers of years, this thing that you are doing is going to be revealed to you as sin and you're going to give it up, so you might as well start giving it up now.

I am nearing 70 and my mom says I was saved at 6 although I don't remember much before 12. in either case that is 50+ years. I walked in the light of what had been revealed to me then. But over time God has shed more light and some of the things that He has shed light on were not revealed by the earlier light I had. Even over the past 10 years, 5 years, even this past year.

What would you say to countless others like me that have grown over the years? Were we not saved because we were in "sin" even though we did not know it?



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luchnia
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Re: Calling Jesus a liar?

Post by luchnia »

Grandfather wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:50 pm
luchnia wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:06 pm
Wonderful question! I think this is worthy of a separate thread. It has been way over forty years ago, yet I don't think I can identify anything as sinful. I can identify many points of big time ignorance in my growth. If ignorance is sin, then I have certainly at times achieved that.
I'm glad you thought the question was thought-provoking.

I just want to make sure I understand you, or that you understood the intent of the question.

If you went back in time and met your 40 year younger self, are you telling me that you would approve of all his actions? That there would be nothing that would cause you to say... in "X" numbers of years, this thing that you are doing is going to be revealed to you as sin and you're going to give it up, so you might as well start giving it up now.

I am nearing 70 and my mom says I was saved at 6 although I don't remember much before 12. in either case that is 50+ years. I walked in the light of what had been revealed to me then. But over time God has shed more light and some of the things that He has shed light on were not revealed by the earlier light I had. Even over the past 10 years, 5 years, even this past year.

What would you say to countless others like me that have grown over the years? Were we not saved because we were in "sin" even though we did not know it?
My question would be how can you sin and not know it? Some believe that mistakes are sin. Although I have heard it taught that you can sin and not know it, I am not one of those that hold to the belief and I don't believe that is a scriptural concept, but I believe I know how that understanding is arrived at.


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Grandfather
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Re: Calling Jesus a liar?

Post by Grandfather »

luchnia wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:59 pm
My question would be how can you sin and not know it? Some believe that mistakes are sin. Although I have heard it taught that you can sin and not know it, I am not one of those that hold to the belief and I don't believe that is a scriptural concept, but I believe I know how that understanding is arrived at.
I see you did not even attempt to answer my question? Why is that?



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luchnia
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Re: Calling Jesus a liar?

Post by luchnia »

Grandfather wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:13 pm
luchnia wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:59 pm
My question would be how can you sin and not know it? Some believe that mistakes are sin. Although I have heard it taught that you can sin and not know it, I am not one of those that hold to the belief and I don't believe that is a scriptural concept, but I believe I know how that understanding is arrived at.
I see you did not even attempt to answer my question? Why is that?
I thought I did answer it. I may be misunderstanding your intent. I answered with a question to clarify, but the answer as far as looking back at myself and seeing things that others might call sin is no if you want a one word answer. I would wonder what you considered being "in sin" while you were growing in grace and knowledge of Jesus. How can I speak to others that believe they are "in sin" if I do not understand what they mean by being in that state?

I can usually tell if someone has missed the moral mark and in sin, but that is difficult in a forum such as this as I could not possibly see their fruits. All I can rely on here is what someone types in these posts which I simply choose not to put a great amount of stake into.


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Re: Calling Jesus a liar?

Post by Grandfather »

luchnia wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:58 am
Grandfather wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:13 pm
luchnia wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:59 pm
My question would be how can you sin and not know it? Some believe that mistakes are sin. Although I have heard it taught that you can sin and not know it, I am not one of those that hold to the belief and I don't believe that is a scriptural concept, but I believe I know how that understanding is arrived at.
I see you did not even attempt to answer my question? Why is that?
I thought I did answer it. I may be misunderstanding your intent. I answered with a question to clarify, but the answer as far as looking back at myself and seeing things that others might call sin is no if you want a one word answer. I would wonder what you considered being "in sin" while you were growing in grace and knowledge of Jesus. How can I speak to others that believe they are "in sin" if I do not understand what they mean by being in that state?

I can usually tell if someone has missed the moral mark and in sin, but that is difficult in a forum such as this as I could not possibly see their fruits. All I can rely on here is what someone types in these posts which I simply choose not to put a great amount of stake into.
perhaps you did... you have never sinned without knowing it.

Amazing you have never been deceived by something, truly deceived to the point where you actually thought "it" was right. Amazing you have never had some other saints come to you and share the truth of God's word that revealed an area of your heart that needed the light of God's Word on it.

That is truly amazing, and unbelievable.



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luchnia
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Re: Calling Jesus a liar?

Post by luchnia »

Grandfather wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:14 pm
luchnia wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:58 am
Grandfather wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:13 pm
luchnia wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:59 pm
My question would be how can you sin and not know it? Some believe that mistakes are sin. Although I have heard it taught that you can sin and not know it, I am not one of those that hold to the belief and I don't believe that is a scriptural concept, but I believe I know how that understanding is arrived at.
I see you did not even attempt to answer my question? Why is that?
I thought I did answer it. I may be misunderstanding your intent. I answered with a question to clarify, but the answer as far as looking back at myself and seeing things that others might call sin is no if you want a one word answer. I would wonder what you considered being "in sin" while you were growing in grace and knowledge of Jesus. How can I speak to others that believe they are "in sin" if I do not understand what they mean by being in that state?

I can usually tell if someone has missed the moral mark and in sin, but that is difficult in a forum such as this as I could not possibly see their fruits. All I can rely on here is what someone types in these posts which I simply choose not to put a great amount of stake into.
perhaps you did... you have never sinned without knowing it.

Amazing you have never been deceived by something, truly deceived to the point where you actually thought "it" was right. Amazing you have never had some other saints come to you and share the truth of God's word that revealed an area of your heart that needed the light of God's Word on it.

That is truly amazing, and unbelievable.
I have been deceived by many things, but nothing that has ever made me choose sin. I refuse it. I would state it is probably because I choose who I hang around with and I simply refuse to partake of anything that to me even remotely would lead me astray. I hope that makes sense. Paul even told Timothy to abstain from all appearances of evil. Not all are as fortunate as I have been over the past 30-40 years as I don't hang out around bars or do any of that. I have been richly blessed and have had many discussions with godly folks over my lifetime.

I have had saints bring up certain points about text, but never anything that somehow revealed an area of my heart that needed the light of God's word on it. I opened my heart to God's word on an on-going basis and continue to do so. I haven't had anybody call me to task about anything really. I had a women once call me a child of the devil though. :mrgreen:

I do remember debating an atheist for about 2 years. He knew more bible than the smartest saints I knew. If I could have been deceived he would have been one that could have done it, but I remained firm and steadfast and would not bend. He was a person that could challenge you quickly and knew God's word to the inth degree. He was simply brilliant. I often stood amazed at his scriptural knowledge. He had an argument proved from scripture that Jesus was actually satan. It was amazing how he had put it all together!


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