Dake Bible Discussion BoardCHILDREN ARE INNOCENT AND GO TO HEAVEN IF THEY DIE.

General Discussion Forum devoted to the study of God's Word in Honor of Finis J. Dake.
User avatar
Ironman
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 3016
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:29 pm
Location: Australia

CHILDREN ARE INNOCENT AND GO TO HEAVEN IF THEY DIE.

Post by Ironman » Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:04 pm

WHERE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE OFFSPRING OF FALLEN ANGELS

The Bible makes it clear that people are condemned to hell on the basis of their sins8 and their rejection of Jesus Christ as the remedy for their sinful condition.

However, infants and young children are incapable of fully understanding either their spiritual condition or God's requirements for salvation.

Can God judge them even though they don't understand the basis of that judgment? THE BIBLE DOES INDICATE THAT CHILDREN ARE INNOCENT, for example, when describing how some of the Israelites in the Valley of Benhinnom had become corrupt so as to sacrifice their own (innocent) children:


Jer. 19:4-5, V 4, Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, whom neither they nor their fathers have known, nor the kings of Judah, and have filled this place with the BLOOD OF THE INNOCENTS;
5, They have built also the high places of Baal, TO BURN THEIR SONS WITH FIRE for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:

2 Kings 17: 17, And they caused their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire, and used divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.

Psalms 106:37-38, V 37, Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils,
38, AND SHED INNOCENT BLOOD, EVEN THE BLOOD OF THEIR SONS AND DAUGHTERS, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood.

GOD SAYS CHILDREN BELONG TO HIM,

Ezek. 16:20-21, V. 20, Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be0 devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter,
21, THAT THOU HAST SLAIN MY CHILDREN, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them?

JESUS SAID THAT PEOPLE WHO ENTER HEAVEN ARE LIKE CHILDREN, IMPLYING THAT CHILDREN GO TO HEAVEN.

Matthew 18:2-3, V. 2, And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
3, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, AND BECOME AS LITTLE CHILDREN, YE SHALL NOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.

Matthew 19:13-14, V. 13, Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.
14, But Jesus said, SUFFER THE LITTLE CHILDREN, and forbid them not, to come unto me: FOR OF SUCH IS THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

Hill Top
We Receive of Him, Because We Keep His Commandments
Posts: 925
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: CHILDREN ARE INNOCENT AND GO TO HEAVEN IF THEY DIE.

Post by Hill Top » Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:50 pm

Ironman wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:04 pm
WHERE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE OFFSPRING OF FALLEN ANGELS

The Bible makes it clear that people are condemned to hell on the basis of their sins8 and their rejection of Jesus Christ as the remedy for their sinful condition.

However, infants and young children are incapable of fully understanding either their spiritual condition or God's requirements for salvation.

Can God judge them even though they don't understand the basis of that judgment? THE BIBLE DOES INDICATE THAT CHILDREN ARE INNOCENT, for example, when describing how some of the Israelites in the Valley of Benhinnom had become corrupt so as to sacrifice their own (innocent) children:


Jer. 19:4-5, V 4, Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, whom neither they nor their fathers have known, nor the kings of Judah, and have filled this place with the BLOOD OF THE INNOCENTS;
5, They have built also the high places of Baal, TO BURN THEIR SONS WITH FIRE for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:

2 Kings 17: 17, And they caused their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire, and used divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.

Psalms 106:37-38, V 37, Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils,
38, AND SHED INNOCENT BLOOD, EVEN THE BLOOD OF THEIR SONS AND DAUGHTERS, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood.

GOD SAYS CHILDREN BELONG TO HIM,

Ezek. 16:20-21, V. 20, Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be0 devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter,
21, THAT THOU HAST SLAIN MY CHILDREN, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them?

JESUS SAID THAT PEOPLE WHO ENTER HEAVEN ARE LIKE CHILDREN, IMPLYING THAT CHILDREN GO TO HEAVEN.

Matthew 18:2-3, V. 2, And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
3, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, AND BECOME AS LITTLE CHILDREN, YE SHALL NOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.

Matthew 19:13-14, V. 13, Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.
14, But Jesus said, SUFFER THE LITTLE CHILDREN, and forbid them not, to come unto me: FOR OF SUCH IS THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.
Thanks: that was pretty well thought out.



User avatar
branham1965
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 6392
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:18 am

Re: CHILDREN ARE INNOCENT AND GO TO HEAVEN IF THEY DIE.

Post by branham1965 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:19 am

Thank you Haz.You write things very well. :angel:
Ironman wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:04 pm
WHERE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE OFFSPRING OF FALLEN ANGELS

The Bible makes it clear that people are condemned to hell on the basis of their sins8 and their rejection of Jesus Christ as the remedy for their sinful condition.

However, infants and young children are incapable of fully understanding either their spiritual condition or God's requirements for salvation.

Can God judge them even though they don't understand the basis of that judgment? THE BIBLE DOES INDICATE THAT CHILDREN ARE INNOCENT, for example, when describing how some of the Israelites in the Valley of Benhinnom had become corrupt so as to sacrifice their own (innocent) children:


Jer. 19:4-5, V 4, Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, whom neither they nor their fathers have known, nor the kings of Judah, and have filled this place with the BLOOD OF THE INNOCENTS;
5, They have built also the high places of Baal, TO BURN THEIR SONS WITH FIRE for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:

2 Kings 17: 17, And they caused their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire, and used divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.

Psalms 106:37-38, V 37, Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils,
38, AND SHED INNOCENT BLOOD, EVEN THE BLOOD OF THEIR SONS AND DAUGHTERS, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood.

GOD SAYS CHILDREN BELONG TO HIM,

Ezek. 16:20-21, V. 20, Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be0 devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter,
21, THAT THOU HAST SLAIN MY CHILDREN, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them?

JESUS SAID THAT PEOPLE WHO ENTER HEAVEN ARE LIKE CHILDREN, IMPLYING THAT CHILDREN GO TO HEAVEN.

Matthew 18:2-3, V. 2, And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
3, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, AND BECOME AS LITTLE CHILDREN, YE SHALL NOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.

Matthew 19:13-14, V. 13, Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.
14, But Jesus said, SUFFER THE LITTLE CHILDREN, and forbid them not, to come unto me: FOR OF SUCH IS THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.



User avatar
luchnia
As Thou Hast Believed, So Be It Done Unto Thee
Posts: 1517
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:01 am

Re: CHILDREN ARE INNOCENT AND GO TO HEAVEN IF THEY DIE.

Post by luchnia » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:19 pm

Hill Top wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:50 pm
Ironman wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:04 pm
WHERE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE OFFSPRING OF FALLEN ANGELS

The Bible makes it clear that people are condemned to hell on the basis of their sins8 and their rejection of Jesus Christ as the remedy for their sinful condition.

However, infants and young children are incapable of fully understanding either their spiritual condition or God's requirements for salvation.

Can God judge them even though they don't understand the basis of that judgment? THE BIBLE DOES INDICATE THAT CHILDREN ARE INNOCENT, for example, when describing how some of the Israelites in the Valley of Benhinnom had become corrupt so as to sacrifice their own (innocent) children:


Jer. 19:4-5, V 4, Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, whom neither they nor their fathers have known, nor the kings of Judah, and have filled this place with the BLOOD OF THE INNOCENTS;
5, They have built also the high places of Baal, TO BURN THEIR SONS WITH FIRE for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:

2 Kings 17: 17, And they caused their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire, and used divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.

Psalms 106:37-38, V 37, Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils,
38, AND SHED INNOCENT BLOOD, EVEN THE BLOOD OF THEIR SONS AND DAUGHTERS, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood.

GOD SAYS CHILDREN BELONG TO HIM,

Ezek. 16:20-21, V. 20, Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be0 devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter,
21, THAT THOU HAST SLAIN MY CHILDREN, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them?

JESUS SAID THAT PEOPLE WHO ENTER HEAVEN ARE LIKE CHILDREN, IMPLYING THAT CHILDREN GO TO HEAVEN.

Matthew 18:2-3, V. 2, And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
3, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, AND BECOME AS LITTLE CHILDREN, YE SHALL NOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.

Matthew 19:13-14, V. 13, Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.
14, But Jesus said, SUFFER THE LITTLE CHILDREN, and forbid them not, to come unto me: FOR OF SUCH IS THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.
Thanks: that was pretty well thought out.
If you want to see more, here is were that info is pulled from - http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/b ... o_die.html


Word up!

User avatar
Spiritblade Disciple
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 4916
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:27 pm

Re: CHILDREN ARE INNOCENT AND GO TO HEAVEN IF THEY DIE.

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:04 pm

luchnia wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:19 pm
If you want to see more, here is were that info is pulled from - http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/b ... o_die.html
Interesting that the site that was plagiarized is against the Pre-Trib Rapture.


http://www.godandscience.org/morebeliefs.html
The Rapture
The Lord Jesus Christ will return for His Church and to judge the nations of the world. Prior to this event, the Bible indicates that followers of Jesus Christ will go through the Great Tribulation at the hands of the unrighteous, but will be raptured or protected from the pouring out of God's wrath during the judgment of the unrighteous.
I have to ask if Haz believes babies will go through the Great Tribulation?


Acts 10:42-43 King James Version
"And He commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is He which was ordained of God to be the Judge of Quick and Dead. To Him give all the Prophets witness, that through His Name WHOSEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHALL RECEIVE REMISSION OF SINS."

User avatar
luchnia
As Thou Hast Believed, So Be It Done Unto Thee
Posts: 1517
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:01 am

Re: CHILDREN ARE INNOCENT AND GO TO HEAVEN IF THEY DIE.

Post by luchnia » Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:33 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:04 pm
luchnia wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:19 pm
If you want to see more, here is were that info is pulled from - http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/b ... o_die.html
Interesting that the site that was plagiarized is against the Pre-Trib Rapture.


http://www.godandscience.org/morebeliefs.html
The Rapture
The Lord Jesus Christ will return for His Church and to judge the nations of the world. Prior to this event, the Bible indicates that followers of Jesus Christ will go through the Great Tribulation at the hands of the unrighteous, but will be raptured or protected from the pouring out of God's wrath during the judgment of the unrighteous.
I have to ask if Haz believes babies will go through the Great Tribulation?
Not sure how other countries treat plagiarism, but I know in the US it is serious matter even down to something considered intellectual matter. Often it is simply a good practice to acknowledge the writer or source where the info came from. I have heard there is some sort of golden rule about using a certain number of words without acknowledgement, however I think that is something that is simply made up. I prefer sharing my own ideas and thoughts about things.

You brought up something that made me think about what happens after the rapture. If God foreknows an child will grow to be evil, will he or she be left during the rapture? The answer would be yes, because the rapture is for the saints and not sinners. If so, that would mean that baby would be eternally lost because the person would be lost as an adult because God knows there is no chance of repentance - Cain and Able again.

That would be a sense that babies would definitely go to hell (for lack of a better term). Of course in that situation God's judgment is correct anyway so that might be considered hair splitting. Seems an odd thing, yet God's foreknowledge is amazing when you research it.


Word up!

User avatar
branham1965
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 6392
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:18 am

Re: CHILDREN ARE INNOCENT AND GO TO HEAVEN IF THEY DIE.

Post by branham1965 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:47 am

Excellent post.
I think it says it all. :angel:
Ironman wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:04 pm
WHERE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE OFFSPRING OF FALLEN ANGELS

The Bible makes it clear that people are condemned to hell on the basis of their sins8 and their rejection of Jesus Christ as the remedy for their sinful condition.

However, infants and young children are incapable of fully understanding either their spiritual condition or God's requirements for salvation.

Can God judge them even though they don't understand the basis of that judgment? THE BIBLE DOES INDICATE THAT CHILDREN ARE INNOCENT, for example, when describing how some of the Israelites in the Valley of Benhinnom had become corrupt so as to sacrifice their own (innocent) children:


Jer. 19:4-5, V 4, Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, whom neither they nor their fathers have known, nor the kings of Judah, and have filled this place with the BLOOD OF THE INNOCENTS;
5, They have built also the high places of Baal, TO BURN THEIR SONS WITH FIRE for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:

2 Kings 17: 17, And they caused their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire, and used divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.

Psalms 106:37-38, V 37, Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils,
38, AND SHED INNOCENT BLOOD, EVEN THE BLOOD OF THEIR SONS AND DAUGHTERS, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood.

GOD SAYS CHILDREN BELONG TO HIM,

Ezek. 16:20-21, V. 20, Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be0 devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter,
21, THAT THOU HAST SLAIN MY CHILDREN, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them?

JESUS SAID THAT PEOPLE WHO ENTER HEAVEN ARE LIKE CHILDREN, IMPLYING THAT CHILDREN GO TO HEAVEN.

Matthew 18:2-3, V. 2, And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
3, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, AND BECOME AS LITTLE CHILDREN, YE SHALL NOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.

Matthew 19:13-14, V. 13, Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.
14, But Jesus said, SUFFER THE LITTLE CHILDREN, and forbid them not, to come unto me: FOR OF SUCH IS THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.



User avatar
branham1965
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 6392
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:18 am

Re: CHILDREN ARE INNOCENT AND GO TO HEAVEN IF THEY DIE.

Post by branham1965 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:51 am

You know he is pre - trib like Reverend Dake.

Come on.

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:04 pm
luchnia wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:19 pm
If you want to see more, here is were that info is pulled from - http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/b ... o_die.html
Interesting that the site that was plagiarized is against the Pre-Trib Rapture.


http://www.godandscience.org/morebeliefs.html
The Rapture
The Lord Jesus Christ will return for His Church and to judge the nations of the world. Prior to this event, the Bible indicates that followers of Jesus Christ will go through the Great Tribulation at the hands of the unrighteous, but will be raptured or protected from the pouring out of God's wrath during the judgment of the unrighteous.
I have to ask if Haz believes babies will go through the Great Tribulation?
Last edited by branham1965 on Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:08 am, edited 3 times in total.



User avatar
branham1965
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 6392
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:18 am

Re: CHILDREN ARE INNOCENT AND GO TO HEAVEN IF THEY DIE.

Post by branham1965 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:53 am

Both damning babies and children to hell are you???




luchnia wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:33 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:04 pm
luchnia wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:19 pm
If you want to see more, here is were that info is pulled from - http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/b ... o_die.html
Interesting that the site that was plagiarized is against the Pre-Trib Rapture.


http://www.godandscience.org/morebeliefs.html
The Rapture
The Lord Jesus Christ will return for His Church and to judge the nations of the world. Prior to this event, the Bible indicates that followers of Jesus Christ will go through the Great Tribulation at the hands of the unrighteous, but will be raptured or protected from the pouring out of God's wrath during the judgment of the unrighteous.
I have to ask if Haz believes babies will go through the Great Tribulation?
Not sure how other countries treat plagiarism, but I know in the US it is serious matter even down to something considered intellectual matter. Often it is simply a good practice to acknowledge the writer or source where the info came from. I have heard there is some sort of golden rule about using a certain number of words without acknowledgement, however I think that is something that is simply made up. I prefer sharing my own ideas and thoughts about things.

You brought up something that made me think about what happens after the rapture. If God foreknows an child will grow to be evil, will he or she be left during the rapture? The answer would be yes, because the rapture is for the saints and not sinners. If so, that would mean that baby would be eternally lost because the person would be lost as an adult because God knows there is no chance of repentance - Cain and Able again.

That would be a sense that babies would definitely go to hell (for lack of a better term). Of course in that situation God's judgment is correct anyway so that might be considered hair splitting. Seems an odd thing, yet God's foreknowledge is amazing when you research it.



User avatar
luchnia
As Thou Hast Believed, So Be It Done Unto Thee
Posts: 1517
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:01 am

Re: CHILDREN ARE INNOCENT AND GO TO HEAVEN IF THEY DIE.

Post by luchnia » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:33 am

branham1965 wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:53 am
Both damning babies and children to hell are you???
Who is damning babies and children to hell? That is not something I have the power to do, nor would I do. For anyone to do such would be usurping authority over God. That is in God's justice and court. Whether we like it or not, what He did and does by judgment is fully righteous whether it be baby or full-grown adult.

BTW, if you take time and read my posts carefully, you will not find any place that I state that innocent babies or children are bound for eternal torments. Why make such an assertion without any facts? It would probably be best when you attempt to judge my position is to simply ask and I may disclose that information. Although it is rare that I discuss my beliefs about such things in these forums, but primarily share some thoughts on the various topics being discussed.


Word up!

Post Reply