Dake Bible Discussion BoardChange My Mind: Some Babies Go to Hell When They Die

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Re: Change My Mind: Some Babies Go to Hell When They Die

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:11 pm

Hill Top wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:01 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:07 pm
I do not hold that babies are inherently free from sin or that they did not sin.
Why not?
In my opinion, it's contrary to the teaching of the Bible. It is clear that babies are inherently sinful because of what happened in the Garden of Eden. And, unless they are saved by grace, they will go to Hell along with all other sinners.


Acts 10:42-43 King James Version
"And He commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is He which was ordained of God to be the Judge of Quick and Dead. To Him give all the Prophets witness, that through His Name WHOSEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHALL RECEIVE REMISSION OF SINS."

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Re: Change My Mind: Some Babies Go to Hell When They Die

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:11 pm

Hill Top wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:01 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:07 pm
I hold that babies can be made free from sin by God's grace.
Is that an automatic gesture by God for all babies...who have never committed a sin?
No. It is not automatic. And, I don't hold that there are babies who never committed a sin.


Acts 10:42-43 King James Version
"And He commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is He which was ordained of God to be the Judge of Quick and Dead. To Him give all the Prophets witness, that through His Name WHOSEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHALL RECEIVE REMISSION OF SINS."

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Re: Change My Mind: Some Babies Go to Hell When They Die

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:12 pm

Hill Top wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:01 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:07 pm
I have shown that people are responsible for the actions that they took even before their conception. And, the Bible is clear that all are condemned based upon what Adam did (or rather, what they did in Adam).
Then you are positing that men will pay for the sins of another; in this case, a distant forefather.
No, I am not.

I am saying that the men in question, were actually active in committing those sins that their forefathers committed, in at least some cases (not necessarily all).


Acts 10:42-43 King James Version
"And He commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is He which was ordained of God to be the Judge of Quick and Dead. To Him give all the Prophets witness, that through His Name WHOSEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHALL RECEIVE REMISSION OF SINS."

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Re: Change My Mind: Some Babies Go to Hell When They Die

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:12 pm

Hill Top wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:01 pm
BTW, we are not "condemned" because we are of Adam, only that a death is in our future.
It is written..."For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." (1 Cor 15:21-22)
Babies are, like all of us, destined to die, but their destruction or eternal life is determined by their actions alone.
Dying is quite a different thing than having one's name erased from the book of life.

It is written..."(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law." (Rom 5:13)
Can a baby be guilty of something it cannot understand?
The sins committed prior to conception that are credited to their accounts were not without understanding. Levi, for example, understood that it was right to pay tithes when he did that righteous act through Abraham. The converse is true. When we all sinned in Adam, we knew what we were doing. We were perfectly united with Adam in word, thought, and deed.


Acts 10:42-43 King James Version
"And He commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is He which was ordained of God to be the Judge of Quick and Dead. To Him give all the Prophets witness, that through His Name WHOSEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHALL RECEIVE REMISSION OF SINS."

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Re: Change My Mind: Some Babies Go to Hell When They Die

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:16 pm

Hill Top wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:14 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:20 pm
Jesus killed a woman's children.
Revelation 2:23 King James Version
"And I WILL KILL HER CHILDREN with death; and all the churches shall know that I am He which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works."
This has already happened.
Dying is quite different than being judged unworthy of eternal life.
Paul "died".
Is he damned?
As he will be judged for his "works", if he does no bad works he will be found in the book of life.
I'm sure this also applies to babies.
No. Of course Paul is not damned.

Why do you believe that any babies have their names written in the Book of Life?


Acts 10:42-43 King James Version
"And He commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is He which was ordained of God to be the Judge of Quick and Dead. To Him give all the Prophets witness, that through His Name WHOSEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHALL RECEIVE REMISSION OF SINS."

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Re: Change My Mind: Some Babies Go to Hell When They Die

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:18 pm

Hill Top wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:14 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:20 pm
He still answers the Psalms 58 prayer because His mercy endures for ever.
Do you rejoice when you see His vengeance?
May His will be done on Earth as in Heaven.
I don't rejoice when a man "runs out of time" to repent of wickedness.
I believe that the Bible teaches that the righteous rejoice when they see God's vengeance. I think it is highly probable that those that do not rejoice when they see God's vengeance are not righteous. After all, they aren't praising Him for His deeds.

Of course, it's possible that such just do not understand what they ought to praise Him for.


Acts 10:42-43 King James Version
"And He commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is He which was ordained of God to be the Judge of Quick and Dead. To Him give all the Prophets witness, that through His Name WHOSEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHALL RECEIVE REMISSION OF SINS."

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Re: Change My Mind: Some Babies Go to Hell When They Die

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:41 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:33 am
Dr. MacArthur believes that all babies that die without reaching the age of accountability were predestined for Heaven.
The traditional teaching of the Age of Accountability Doctrine was most rationally acted upon by Andrea Yates.

She agreed with the traditional teaching that all babies that die go to Heaven automatically at death, if they have not reached the Age of Accountability. Therefore, she sought to kill her children before they could reach the Age of Accountability. After all, the chances of someone being saved are much less than 100% after they reach the Age of Accountability.

https://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=130284&page=1

Had she believed as I do concerning this, she would have would not have believed that killing her children was the answer. Instead, she would have known that the best hope for her children was to raise them in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Killing them would not have guaranteed their entrance into Heaven.


Acts 10:42-43 King James Version
"And He commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is He which was ordained of God to be the Judge of Quick and Dead. To Him give all the Prophets witness, that through His Name WHOSEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHALL RECEIVE REMISSION OF SINS."

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Re: Change My Mind: Some Babies Go to Hell When They Die

Post by luchnia » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:30 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:11 pm
In my opinion, it's contrary to the teaching of the Bible. It is clear that babies are inherently sinful because of what happened in the Garden of Eden. And, unless they are saved by grace, they will go to Hell along with all other sinners.
I think there are some challenges to a baby being inherently sinful. I get the concept, yet there are some things in scripture that seem to challenge that idea. John the Baptist is a good start and some things Jesus said. When we think of "saved by grace" what does that mean to a newborn baby especially in light of the fact that a newborn cannot chose righteousness nor confess that Jesus rose again from the dead that he or she might be saved.

I think the fact remains that if an infant dies, there must be something that determines innocence or guilt. The question is what is that something? Is it God's grace and how does one determine which baby receives the grace? Jesus certainly had an interesting manner around children and made a number of comments pertaining to them that certainly brings thoughts to mind.


Word up!

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Re: Change My Mind: Some Babies Go to Hell When They Die

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:51 pm

luchnia wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:30 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:11 pm
In my opinion, it's contrary to the teaching of the Bible. It is clear that babies are inherently sinful because of what happened in the Garden of Eden. And, unless they are saved by grace, they will go to Hell along with all other sinners.
I think there are some challenges to a baby being inherently sinful. I get the concept, yet there are some things in scripture that seem to challenge that idea. John the Baptist is a good start and some things Jesus said.
John the Baptist is not a challenge to this idea at all. In fact, he is proof of the concept. His parents were both believers and righteous. The fact that he was filled with the Spirit in the womb proves that John was saved in the womb. The fact that this happened at the exact time that Mary greeted Elizabeth is just more empahsis.

The Lord is more than able to cause a babe to choose Him.

Psalm 22:9-10 King James Version
But Thou art He that took Me out of the womb: Thou didst make Me hope when I was upon My mother's breasts. I was cast upon Thee from the womb: Thou art My God from My mother's belly.

The idea that the salvation of children relies on their ability to understand is nonsense.


Acts 10:42-43 King James Version
"And He commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is He which was ordained of God to be the Judge of Quick and Dead. To Him give all the Prophets witness, that through His Name WHOSEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHALL RECEIVE REMISSION OF SINS."

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Re: Change My Mind: Some Babies Go to Hell When They Die

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:58 pm

luchnia wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:30 pm
When we think of "saved by grace" what does that mean to a newborn baby especially in light of the fact that a newborn cannot chose righteousness nor confess that Jesus rose again from the dead that he or she might be saved.
Great question. It is clear from the case of John the Baptist that neither choosing righteousness nor confessing that Jesus rose from the dead is necessary on the part of the infant for that infant to be saved. Paul makes it clear that the cleanness or uncleanness of a child is determined by whether or not at least one of that child is a believer. Just as the man that was borne of four was forgiven of his sins because Jesus saw the faith of the four, not the man's own faith, so when Jesus sees the faith of a parent, He forgives the child.

I do not think that it really is not a great mystery.


Acts 10:42-43 King James Version
"And He commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is He which was ordained of God to be the Judge of Quick and Dead. To Him give all the Prophets witness, that through His Name WHOSEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHALL RECEIVE REMISSION OF SINS."

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