Dake Bible Discussion BoardA challenge of faith.

General Discussion Forum devoted to the study of God's Word in Honor of Finis J. Dake.
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luchnia
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A challenge of faith.

Post by luchnia » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:28 pm

Many want faith, but when they find out what is required for operation of faith in their lives, their desire changes and most wind up with faith that is dead or as some would call it faith without corresponding action. You find a lack of action in faith for health, prosperity, and eternal life – basically overall wholeness is simply not there. I think the same challenge exist in faith for eternal life.

It may have been in Dake’s writings that mention corresponding action to faith not sure, but point is faith requires something to be done from the individual. I am sure that none of us disagree that faith without works is simply dead faith as we read in James.

Take these three basic things, health, prosperity, and eternal life that makes one whole in Christ. Through Jesus God made provision to walk fully in all three, providing we take the necessary actions and not hinder His work in any way. If one does not walk in faith for health and prosperity, how do they walk in faith for eternal life which requires the greatest working faith because the manifestation of eternal life is not readily seen but is only evident by what is not seen?

I think this is why salvation for eternal life is easy to proclaim for many, yet hard to live it out in their daily walk. You have heard the old saying about preaching a good game, but not playing it. The profession is not genuine because it can be lip service and not active living faith. As Jesus put it, you judge a tree by the fruit it bares.

The challenge against that dead faith is as James put it, “I will show you my faith by my works.” Another way to look at it is that a life in Christ will be a life of corresponding action to the one they believe in. I so like the words that Paul used in Galatians 2:20, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."


Word up!

TruthSeeker
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Re: A challenge of faith.

Post by TruthSeeker » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:51 pm

luchnia wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:28 pm
Many want faith, but when they find out what is required for operation of faith in their lives, their desire changes and most wind up with faith that is dead or as some would call it faith without corresponding action. You find a lack of action in faith for health, prosperity, and eternal life – basically overall wholeness is simply not there. I think the same challenge exist in faith for eternal life.

It may have been in Dake’s writings that mention corresponding action to faith not sure, but point is faith requires something to be done from the individual. I am sure that none of us disagree that faith without works is simply dead faith as we read in James.

Take these three basic things, health, prosperity, and eternal life that makes one whole in Christ. Through Jesus God made provision to walk fully in all three, providing we take the necessary actions and not hinder His work in any way. If one does not walk in faith for health and prosperity, how do they walk in faith for eternal life which requires the greatest working faith because the manifestation of eternal life is not readily seen but is only evident by what is not seen?

I think this is why salvation for eternal life is easy to proclaim for many, yet hard to live it out in their daily walk. You have heard the old saying about preaching a good game, but not playing it. The profession is not genuine because it can be lip service and not active living faith. As Jesus put it, you judge a tree by the fruit it bares.

The challenge against that dead faith is as James put it, “I will show you my faith by my works.” Another way to look at it is that a life in Christ will be a life of corresponding action to the one they believe in. I so like the words that Paul used in Galatians 2:20, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."
Good post. If faith works by love, and it does, then how would one do those things in 1 Cor. 13:2 ( like removing mountains) by faith without love?



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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: A challenge of faith.

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:14 pm

TruthSeeker wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:51 pm

Good post. If faith works by love, and it does, then how would one do those things in 1 Cor. 13:2 ( like removing mountains) by faith without love?
Great question.

Even mountain moving faith is sometimes sinful.

There is more than one kind of love and more than one kind of faith.


Job 14:4 King James Version
Who can bring a CLEAN thing out of an UNCLEAN? Not one.

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luchnia
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Re: A challenge of faith.

Post by luchnia » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:17 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:14 pm
TruthSeeker wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:51 pm

Good post. If faith works by love, and it does, then how would one do those things in 1 Cor. 13:2 ( like removing mountains) by faith without love?
Great question.

Even mountain moving faith is sometimes sinful.

There is more than one kind of love and more than one kind of faith.
Yes, these are definitely thought provoking questions.


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TruthSeeker
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Re: A challenge of faith.

Post by TruthSeeker » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:21 pm

Can anyone give examples of successful mountain moving faith that was sinful and apart from love in the scriptures?



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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: A challenge of faith.

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:45 pm

TruthSeeker wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:21 pm
Can anyone give examples of successful mountain moving faith that was sinful and apart from love in the scriptures?
Matthew 7:22 King James Version
"Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy Name? And in Thy Name have cast out devils? And in Thy Name done many wonderful works?'"


Job 14:4 King James Version
Who can bring a CLEAN thing out of an UNCLEAN? Not one.

TruthSeeker
Wrestle Not Against Flesh and Blood
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:50 am

Re: A challenge of faith.

Post by TruthSeeker » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:03 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:45 pm
TruthSeeker wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:21 pm
Can anyone give examples of successful mountain moving faith that was sinful and apart from love in the scriptures?
Matthew 7:22 King James Version
"Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy Name? And in Thy Name have cast out devils? And in Thy Name done many wonderful works?'"

I thought of that. Dake in his commentary suggested those people were lying.



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Spiritblade Disciple
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
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Re: A challenge of faith.

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:10 pm

TruthSeeker wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:21 pm
Can anyone give examples of successful mountain moving faith that was sinful and apart from love in the scriptures?
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:45 pm
Matthew 7:22 King James Version
"Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy Name? And in Thy Name have cast out devils? And in Thy Name done many wonderful works?'"
TruthSeeker wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:03 pm

I thought of that. Dake in his commentary suggested those people were lying.
Many teach that the gifts of the Spirit can be used by those that have fallen away. A person with the gift of miracles, healings, etc... could still use them in a backslidden/lost condition.

What Jesus says in Luke 4 is also relevant, here. The true servants of God go where He says to go and do what He says to do. Just because there's lepers there doesn't mean that they are to be cured. Had Jesus indiscriminately performed miracles, just because He could have, He would have been in sin. The same goes for anyone else.


Job 14:4 King James Version
Who can bring a CLEAN thing out of an UNCLEAN? Not one.

TruthSeeker
Wrestle Not Against Flesh and Blood
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:50 am

Re: A challenge of faith.

Post by TruthSeeker » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:22 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:10 pm
TruthSeeker wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:21 pm
Can anyone give examples of successful mountain moving faith that was sinful and apart from love in the scriptures?
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:45 pm
Matthew 7:22 King James Version
"Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy Name? And in Thy Name have cast out devils? And in Thy Name done many wonderful works?'"
TruthSeeker wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:03 pm

I thought of that. Dake in his commentary suggested those people were lying.
Many teach that the gifts of the Spirit can be used by those that have fallen away. A person with the gift of miracles, healings, etc... could still use them in a backslidden/lost condition.

Jesus said that He never knew them not that He once knew them. Are you saying unsaved people can cast out devils?



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Spiritblade Disciple
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
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Re: A challenge of faith.

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:50 pm

TruthSeeker wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:21 pm
Can anyone give examples of successful mountain moving faith that was sinful and apart from love in the scriptures?
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:45 pm
Matthew 7:22 King James Version
"Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy Name? And in Thy Name have cast out devils? And in Thy Name done many wonderful works?'"
TruthSeeker wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:03 pm

I thought of that. Dake in his commentary suggested those people were lying.
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:10 pm
Many teach that the gifts of the Spirit can be used by those that have fallen away. A person with the gift of miracles, healings, etc... could still use them in a backslidden/lost condition.
TruthSeeker wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:22 pm

Jesus said that He never knew them not that He once knew them. Are you saying unsaved people can cast out devils?
I believe that it is possible, yes. Especially, when it furthers the goals of said devils.

I also believe it is possible for a saved person to not "know" Christ in the sense of having a deep relationship with Him. Such a person could even have some of the gifts of the Spirit and fall away, perhaps through performing miracles, prophesying, or casting out demons when not instructed to. It could truly be said of such a person that Christ didn't know them because the two weren't intimately acquainted.

Broad road Christianity offers false hope to many.


Job 14:4 King James Version
Who can bring a CLEAN thing out of an UNCLEAN? Not one.

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