Dake Bible Discussion BoardThere is no man that sinneth not

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Hill Top
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Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by Hill Top » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:32 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:43 pm
Yes, I do believe that babies can and do go to Hell, IF they are unclean when they die (as most are).
It is written..." For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." (2 Corinthians 5:10)
What "things" can a baby be judged unworthy of eternal life for?

I think you are basing your position on Jewish laws that no longer apply in the NT, (though I can't think of which law exactly)



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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:46 pm

Hill Top wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:32 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:43 pm
Yes, I do believe that babies can and do go to Hell, IF they are unclean when they die (as most are).
It is written..." For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." (2 Corinthians 5:10)
What "things" can a baby be judged unworthy of eternal life for?

I think you are basing your position on Jewish laws that no longer apply in the NT, (though I can't think of which law exactly)
Thanks for the reply.

I think you're misapplying 2 Corinthians 5:10.

Why do you think that babies would need to appear before the Judgment Seat of Christ?

If the "We" includes babies, then naturally babies must be included in the "all." If the "we" does not include babies, then naturally babies would not be included in the "all."

Dake taught that the Judgment Seat of Christ was only for the saved. The unsaved would appear at the Great White Throne Judgment, a separate event. So, we are apparently coming at this discussion with very different perspectives on at least some scriptures. That being the case, it may take some discussion to understand one another's perspectives.

(I am basing my thoughts, on this, primarily upon New Testament Scriptures and the fact that people were damned through what Adam did and are saved through what Christ did.)

I will be able to go into this in greater detail, next week. Going to be busy off-line for the next several days.


Job 14:4 King James Version
Who can bring a CLEAN thing out of an UNCLEAN? Not one.

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luchnia
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Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by luchnia » Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:53 am

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:46 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:32 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:43 pm
Yes, I do believe that babies can and do go to Hell, IF they are unclean when they die (as most are).
It is written..." For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." (2 Corinthians 5:10)
What "things" can a baby be judged unworthy of eternal life for?

I think you are basing your position on Jewish laws that no longer apply in the NT, (though I can't think of which law exactly)
Thanks for the reply.

I think you're misapplying 2 Corinthians 5:10.

Why do you think that babies would need to appear before the Judgment Seat of Christ?

If the "We" includes babies, then naturally babies must be included in the "all." If the "we" does not include babies, then naturally babies would not be included in the "all."

Dake taught that the Judgment Seat of Christ was only for the saved. The unsaved would appear at the Great White Throne Judgment, a separate event. So, we are apparently coming at this discussion with very different perspectives on at least some scriptures. That being the case, it may take some discussion to understand one another's perspectives.

(I am basing my thoughts, on this, primarily upon New Testament Scriptures and the fact that people were damned through what Adam did and are saved through what Christ did.)

I will be able to go into this in greater detail, next week. Going to be busy off-line for the next several days.
Although we have had very good discussions on this, why not start a new thread since this has to do with "There is no man that sinneth not"? I will do my best to join in as much as possible. One that does not run from truth and is open can learn much from the Spirit of truth.

The great thing is when people post scriptures there is much one can learn. Even one posted out of context can be used to refresh your memory on the context of the out of context verses. The only challenge is that when a verse is used out of context it can support false doctrine and become one's premise and certainly cause much conjecture and speculation.


Word up!

Hill Top
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Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by Hill Top » Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:35 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:46 pm
Thanks for the reply.
I think you're misapplying 2 Corinthians 5:10.
Why do you think that babies would need to appear before the Judgment Seat of Christ?
If the "We" includes babies, then naturally babies must be included in the "all." If the "we" does not include babies, then naturally babies would not be included in the "all."
All means all. Babies included.
If, as you say, babies will "go to hell for being unclean", why would they not also partake in the judgement?
Or do you suppose that God throws the unclean into the lake of fire without a judgement?
But aren't all the folks who are not In Christ Jesus unclean?
What then is the point of any judgement at all?

Paul writes..."Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after." (1 Tim 5:24)
For those in Christ, we have already suffered our judgement, when we were crucified with Christ. (Rom 6:5-6)
By that standard, the righteous won't be judged again. We are already "hid with Christ in God"...(Col 3;3)
My death, with Christ, was the righteous judgement for my past sins. (Rom 6:23)
I have already stood before the throne of God for my come-upance.
If I am to stand before God for another judgement, it will only be to glorify God for His mercy and strength and grace in the time after my conversion.
Dake taught that the Judgment Seat of Christ was only for the saved. The unsaved would appear at the Great White Throne Judgment, a separate event. So, we are apparently coming at this discussion with very different perspectives on at least some scriptures. That being the case, it may take some discussion to understand one another's perspectives.
There are two mentions of a "throne" in heaven.
The first, Rev 7:9, makes no mention of any judgement, but as a place where they "stood before the throne, and before the Lamb,".
Was this throne the Lamb's? Was it God Almighty"s and the Lamb was beside it?
Is there more than one throne?
I feel there is only one throne, God's, and the Lamb can sit in it if He wants.
So it is the same throne as the great white one mentioned in Rev 20:11.
If, as I purpose, the first mention of the throne is a time separate from the second, and not a time of judgement for the wicked, it can qualify as the time mentioned in 2 Cor 5:10.
Only later will the throne be used to judge who is or is not written in the book of life...post-millennially.
This would appear to be in agreement with rev. Dake.

I have never before studied this out so I may have a lack of knowledge concerning details, but I trust in God that I am not leading you down a wrong line of thought.
(I am basing my thoughts, on this, primarily upon New Testament Scriptures and the fact that people were damned through what Adam did and are saved through what Christ did.)
I will be able to go into this in greater detail, next week. Going to be busy off-line for the next several days.
Please keep in mind that no man, or baby, will be judged for the sins of another. Only for our own sins.



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luchnia
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Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by luchnia » Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:20 am

Hill Top wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:35 pm
All means all.
It might be of some benefit when considering words like "all" and "we" that they are not always used in scripture to mean all inclusive as in the case "all have sinned" or "all have gone astray" which we know not to be true because Jesus did not sin nor go astray. So in this case "all" does not include everyone. You can search the scripture and find this a number of times.


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Hill Top
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Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by Hill Top » Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:35 pm

luchnia wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:20 am

It might be of some benefit when considering words like "all" and "we" that they are not always used in scripture to mean all inclusive as in the case "all have sinned" or "all have gone astray" which we know not to be true because Jesus did not sin nor go astray. So in this case "all" does not include everyone. You can search the scripture and find this a number of times.
I agree, as sometimes the "all" might apply only to those in the local context.



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branham1965
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Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by branham1965 » Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:03 am

Reverend Dake does not teach that babies roast in hell.

Common horse sense tells people you are wrong.

JEHOVAH is all Holy and is perfect in Wisdom,Justice,Love and Power.Duet 32:3-4 1 John 4:8 etc.
He said casting children and babies into the fire never even came up in his heart.
Jeremiah 7:31.
Through out the Old Testament God condemns children or babies being burned in fire to pagan deities which are actually demons.
The whole idea of child torture comes from Lucifer.
It is that way inthe Old Testament and remembers Herods slaughter of the innocents.
42 million babies were murdered last year in the world.


Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:46 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:32 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:43 pm
Yes, I do believe that babies can and do go to Hell, IF they are unclean when they die (as most are).
It is written..." For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." (2 Corinthians 5:10)
What "things" can a baby be judged unworthy of eternal life for?

I think you are basing your position on Jewish laws that no longer apply in the NT, (though I can't think of which law exactly)
Thanks for the reply.

I think you're misapplying 2 Corinthians 5:10.

Why do you think that babies would need to appear before the Judgment Seat of Christ?

If the "We" includes babies, then naturally babies must be included in the "all." If the "we" does not include babies, then naturally babies would not be included in the "all."

Dake taught that the Judgment Seat of Christ was only for the saved. The unsaved would appear at the Great White Throne Judgment, a separate event. So, we are apparently coming at this discussion with very different perspectives on at least some scriptures. That being the case, it may take some discussion to understand one another's perspectives.

(I am basing my thoughts, on this, primarily upon New Testament Scriptures and the fact that people were damned through what Adam did and are saved through what Christ did.)

I will be able to go into this in greater detail, next week. Going to be busy off-line for the next several days.



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luchnia
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Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by luchnia » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:37 am

[/quote]
branham1965 wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:02 am
Reverend Dake does not teach that babies roast in hell.
This may be only partly true. Although this view is not widely held, Dake actually taught that the offspring of the angels and daughters of men produced races that were from evil seed and had no resurrection and no salvation. He taught there were two instances of this, one before the second flood and one after that. He also taught that the only saved ones were on the ark. Does that mean that the babies that died during the flood died saved?

Or does that teach that babies roast in hell? From Dake's notes it would appear so. It is possible that question could not be answered with certainty. I would have to dig into GPFM because I don't recall everything Dake taught on this. It may be they were annihilated, yet what about the second eruption? Since there was never to be another flood like Noah's, what happens to the children from those unions now? When an infant from that union died, did it die saved?


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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:31 pm

Regarding whether or not some babies go to Hell...
luchnia wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:53 am
Although we have had very good discussions on this, why not start a new thread since this has to do with "There is no man that sinneth not"? I will do my best to join in as much as possible. One that does not run from truth and is open can learn much from the Spirit of truth.

The great thing is when people post scriptures there is much one can learn. Even one posted out of context can be used to refresh your memory on the context of the out of context verses. The only challenge is that when a verse is used out of context it can support false doctrine and become one's premise and certainly cause much conjecture and speculation.
It would be great if threads were actually on the topic of the original post and were filled with discussions pertaining to what the Bible says about that subject.

I have my doubts about whether or not a new thread started on this or any other topic would remain on topic. But, yes, we can start a new thread.

Thank you.


Job 14:4 King James Version
Who can bring a CLEAN thing out of an UNCLEAN? Not one.

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luchnia
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Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by luchnia » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:08 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:31 pm
Regarding whether or not some babies go to Hell...
luchnia wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:53 am
Although we have had very good discussions on this, why not start a new thread since this has to do with "There is no man that sinneth not"? I will do my best to join in as much as possible. One that does not run from truth and is open can learn much from the Spirit of truth.

The great thing is when people post scriptures there is much one can learn. Even one posted out of context can be used to refresh your memory on the context of the out of context verses. The only challenge is that when a verse is used out of context it can support false doctrine and become one's premise and certainly cause much conjecture and speculation.
It would be great if threads were actually on the topic of the original post and were filled with discussions pertaining to what the Bible says about that subject.

I have my doubts about whether or not a new thread started on this or any other topic would remain on topic. But, yes, we can start a new thread.

Thank you.
Well, the more I think about it, the more I think you are 100% correct. No thread will likely remain on topic.


Word up!

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