Dake Bible Discussion BoardThere is no man that sinneth not

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luchnia
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Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by luchnia » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:21 pm

Ironman wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:40 pm
luchnia wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:19 am
Ironman wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:58 pm

You are now nit-picking. Why don't you just tear out of your bible the things you do not believe and be done with it and stop arguing about trivial rubbish? No wonder people leave here and go to other boards.
Not sure why you are so hateful toward me, but to me there is nothing in God's word that is "trivial rubbish." You are welcome to NOT reply to my posts.
Not being hateful just pointing out a fact. You nit pick plain easy to understand Scriptures to pieces.
You consider the text in question easy to understand and I as well, yet your easy understanding differs from mine. I offered a different view. Just because it is easy to understand for you, doesn't mean you hold the truth about it. It also doesn't mean that I have the truth about it. We could both be wrong, or one of us could be right.


Word up!

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Ironman
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
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Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by Ironman » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:16 pm

luchnia wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:21 pm
Ironman wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:40 pm
luchnia wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:19 am
Ironman wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:58 pm

You are now nit-picking. Why don't you just tear out of your bible the things you do not believe and be done with it and stop arguing about trivial rubbish? No wonder people leave here and go to other boards.
Not sure why you are so hateful toward me, but to me there is nothing in God's word that is "trivial rubbish." You are welcome to NOT reply to my posts.
Not being hateful just pointing out a fact. You nit pick plain easy to understand Scriptures to pieces.
You consider the text in question easy to understand and I as well, yet your easy understanding differs from mine. I offered a different view. Just because it is easy to understand for you, doesn't mean you hold the truth about it. It also doesn't mean that I have the truth about it. We could both be wrong, or one of us could be right.
Tell you who is right, "GOD'S HOLY INSPIRED WRITTEN WORD IS RIGHT." Even people filled with the Holy Spirit have sinned.

Eccl. 7: 20, For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

Romans 3: 10, As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Romans 3: 23, For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;


For example, King Saul, who was once in God's favour or grace and who had the Holy Spirit, lost that favour and was destroyed because of sin (1 Chron. 10:13-14). He committed suicide and must be lost, for no murderer has eternal life (1 Sam.28:7-25; 31:1-6; 1 John 3:15; Gal. 5:19-21). life.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

Hill Top
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Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by Hill Top » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:25 pm

TruthSeeker wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:31 pm
I see what you and SBD are getting at with John the Baptist but I don't want to assume what you two mean. Are you saying that John the Baptist was born with out sin and there is no record that he ever did sin during his lifetime?

If that is what you mean, what about 1John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us"
1 John 1 is written to the church about two very different kinds of "walk".
One in darkness, (sin).
One in the light, (God).
Those walking in darkness cannot say they have no sin, but those who walk in the light, (God), can say they have no sin: as verse 7 says..."But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
ALL sin !
Why can't that man who remains in the light say he has no sin?
As for John the Baptist, no man is born with sin on them, as it is impossible for a baby to commit anything.
Men with the Spirit of God in them do not commit sin.
In the OT, men could, and did receive the Spirit for lengths of time, but It did not always remain on them.
Why couldn't the Spirit remain on/in John for his entire life?
He had the Spirit of Elias and was the prophet that heralded the coming Savior. Why couldn't he have had the Spirit, and remained faithful for his entire life?



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luchnia
As Thou Hast Believed, So Be It Done Unto Thee
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Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by luchnia » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:58 am

Ironman wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:16 pm
luchnia wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:21 pm
Ironman wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:40 pm
luchnia wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:19 am
Ironman wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:58 pm

You are now nit-picking. Why don't you just tear out of your bible the things you do not believe and be done with it and stop arguing about trivial rubbish? No wonder people leave here and go to other boards.
Not sure why you are so hateful toward me, but to me there is nothing in God's word that is "trivial rubbish." You are welcome to NOT reply to my posts.
Not being hateful just pointing out a fact. You nit pick plain easy to understand Scriptures to pieces.
You consider the text in question easy to understand and I as well, yet your easy understanding differs from mine. I offered a different view. Just because it is easy to understand for you, doesn't mean you hold the truth about it. It also doesn't mean that I have the truth about it. We could both be wrong, or one of us could be right.
Tell you who is right, "GOD'S HOLY INSPIRED WRITTEN WORD IS RIGHT." Even people filled with the Holy Spirit have sinned.

Eccl. 7: 20, For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

Romans 3: 10, As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Romans 3: 23, For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;


For example, King Saul, who was once in God's favour or grace and who had the Holy Spirit, lost that favour and was destroyed because of sin (1 Chron. 10:13-14). He committed suicide and must be lost, for no murderer has eternal life (1 Sam.28:7-25; 31:1-6; 1 John 3:15; Gal. 5:19-21). life.
I thought you had a better understanding of God's Holy inspired written word, however I was greatly in error. The Holy Spirit is incapable of sin. Making the Spirit of God liable for sin by taking scripture out of context building erroneous doctrines on it is dangerous territory to walk. To each his own.


Word up!

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luchnia
As Thou Hast Believed, So Be It Done Unto Thee
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Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by luchnia » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:19 am

Hill Top wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:25 pm
TruthSeeker wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:31 pm
I see what you and SBD are getting at with John the Baptist but I don't want to assume what you two mean. Are you saying that John the Baptist was born with out sin and there is no record that he ever did sin during his lifetime?

If that is what you mean, what about 1John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us"
1 John 1 is written to the church about two very different kinds of "walk".
One in darkness, (sin).
One in the light, (God).
Those walking in darkness cannot say they have no sin, but those who walk in the light, (God), can say they have no sin: as verse 7 says..."But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
ALL sin !
Why can't that man who remains in the light say he has no sin?
As for John the Baptist, no man is born with sin on them, as it is impossible for a baby to commit anything.
Men with the Spirit of God in them do not commit sin.
In the OT, men could, and did receive the Spirit for lengths of time, but It did not always remain on them.
Why couldn't the Spirit remain on/in John for his entire life?
He had the Spirit of Elias and was the prophet that heralded the coming Savior. Why couldn't he have had the Spirit, and remained faithful for his entire life?
Indeed there are two paths and the narrow way is not full of "holy spirit sinners." The saints walk in the divine nature of God and are the righteousness of Christ Jesus and have the Spirit of Christ. Those that sin are none of His. It is Christ who lives in us, with us, and works through us. As Dake put it, "...the real Christian is holy..."

Here is another quote from Dake that is spot on the mark: "Do not let men deceive you into thinking that there is no such thing as a clean, holy, and victorious life in Christ secure from sin, the flesh, the world, and the devil. If you are not saved from these things you are not saved from Hell..."

The saint of God identifies with Romans 10 as well as many other verses.
Romans 10:9-11 (KJV)
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Jesus is our redemption, sanctification, justification, and wisdom. Jesus freed us from ALL sin that we do not have to walk in it. A man can walk the path of light and righteousness and must or he will perish without God.

Here is more...
Romans 3:21-26 (KJV)
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


Word up!

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Ironman
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
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Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by Ironman » Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:21 pm

luchnia wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:58 am
Ironman wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:16 pm
luchnia wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:21 pm
Ironman wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:40 pm
luchnia wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:19 am
Ironman wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:58 pm

You are now nit-picking. Why don't you just tear out of your bible the things you do not believe and be done with it and stop arguing about trivial rubbish? No wonder people leave here and go to other boards.
Not sure why you are so hateful toward me, but to me there is nothing in God's word that is "trivial rubbish." You are welcome to NOT reply to my posts.
Not being hateful just pointing out a fact. You nit pick plain easy to understand Scriptures to pieces.
You consider the text in question easy to understand and I as well, yet your easy understanding differs from mine. I offered a different view. Just because it is easy to understand for you, doesn't mean you hold the truth about it. It also doesn't mean that I have the truth about it. We could both be wrong, or one of us could be right.
Tell you who is right, "GOD'S HOLY INSPIRED WRITTEN WORD IS RIGHT." Even people filled with the Holy Spirit have sinned.

Eccl. 7: 20, For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

Romans 3: 10, As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Romans 3: 23, For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;


For example, King Saul, who was once in God's favour or grace and who had the Holy Spirit, lost that favour and was destroyed because of sin (1 Chron. 10:13-14). He committed suicide and must be lost, for no murderer has eternal life (1 Sam.28:7-25; 31:1-6; 1 John 3:15; Gal. 5:19-21). life.
I thought you had a better understanding of God's Holy inspired written word, however I was greatly in error. The Holy Spirit is incapable of sin. Making the Spirit of God liable for sin by taking scripture out of context building erroneous doctrines on it is dangerous territory to walk. To each his own.
Are you on something? Where did I say the Holy Spirit is capable of sin?


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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Ironman
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
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Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by Ironman » Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:46 pm

King Saul had the Holy Spirit, 1 Sam. 10:10, And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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branham1965
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Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by branham1965 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:24 am

I agree with you Ironman. :angel: :angel:



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Ironman
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Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by Ironman » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:20 pm

branham1965 wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:24 am
I agree with you Ironman. :angel: :angel:
Thanks Billy. This is what many fail to realise or believe. Scripture shows that the gift of the Holy Spirit can be abused. Solomon, while in a backslidden state used the gift of wisdom and knowledge to further his own rebellion against God (Eccl. 1:12-18; 2:4-11). The wisdom and knowledge God gave Solomon became part of his natural ability, and he continued to use them while backslidden. Any knowledge that a man learns by Divine revelation, or by experience, or by being taught, he can still use whether saved or not, because it becomes part of his mental knowledge and wisdom.

Moses misused his gift of miricals, and therefore, for smiting the rock instead of speaking to the rock as God instructed him, he was forbidden to enter Canaan (Num. 20:7-13; Deut. 32:48-52). Paul taught that one may have the gifts of the spirit, and still not love, and they would profit nothing (1 Cor. 13:1-3).

"Though I may speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity [Divine Love], I am become as a sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And although I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and although I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing" (1 Cor. 13:1-3).

Paul further corrected many abuses of the gifts of the spirit in local churches as is clear in (1 Cor. 14:1-40).

Are the gifts permanent or temporary?

They are always permanent if they are real gifts, as given to any person. There are no doctrins of a temporary gift or calling from God mentioned in Scripture. God, when He see's it proper to give gifts or to call a person to some particular work in life, does not change His mind regarding the giving of the gifts. When a person who has been given a particular gift backslides, God will cease to use the person, but if and when the person comes back to God his original gifts and calling are there to be exercised through him again. Although we wood be foolish in saying that when God spoke through the ass that the dumb animal had recieved a permament gift to speak. God just used the animal.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

Hill Top
We Receive of Him, Because We Keep His Commandments
Posts: 925
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: There is no man that sinneth not

Post by Hill Top » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:44 pm

Ironman wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:20 pm
branham1965 wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:24 am
I agree with you Ironman. :angel: :angel:
Thanks Billy. This is what many fail to realise or believe. Scripture shows that the gift of the Holy Spirit can be abused. Solomon, while in a backslidden state used the gift of wisdom and knowledge to further his own rebellion against God (Eccl. 1:12-18; 2:4-11). The wisdom and knowledge God gave Solomon became part of his natural ability, and he continued to use them while backslidden. Any knowledge that a man learns by Divine revelation, or by experience, or by being taught, he can still use whether saved or not, because it becomes part of his mental knowledge and wisdom.

Moses misused his gift of miricals, and therefore, for smiting the rock instead of speaking to the rock as God instructed him, he was forbidden to enter Canaan (Num. 20:7-13; Deut. 32:48-52). Paul taught that one may have the gifts of the spirit, and still not love, and they would profit nothing (1 Cor. 13:1-3).

"Though I may speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity [Divine Love], I am become as a sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And although I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and although I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing" (1 Cor. 13:1-3).

Paul further corrected many abuses of the gifts of the spirit in local churches as is clear in (1 Cor. 14:1-40).

Are the gifts permanent or temporary?

They are always permanent if they are real gifts, as given to any person. There are no doctrines of a temporary gift or calling from God mentioned in Scripture.

God, when He see's it proper to give gifts or to call a person to some particular work in life, does not change His mind regarding the giving of the gifts.

When a person who has been given a particular gift backslides, God will cease to use the person, but if and when the person comes back to God his original gifts and calling are there to be exercised through him again.

Although we would be foolish in saying that when God spoke through the ass that the dumb animal had received a permanent gift to speak. God just used the animal.
I appreciate your usage of scrip' to validate your points.
But I must remind you that the gift of the Holy Ghost in the OT was quite different than in the NT.
As you asked/stated... "Are the gifts permanent or temporary? They are always permanent if they are real gifts..." I see in 1 Sam 18:10-12 that "the Lord...was departed from Saul", and that "the evil spirit came upon Saul".
Gifts have been shown to be temporary.
And as you also said that "God just used the animal."...some gifts are for the sole purpose of doing God's will on a single occasion and can be taken away later.
I don't see any documented person in the NT who had the Spirit, then losing it.
In my opinion, God now only gives the gift of the Holy Ghost to those who will permanently turn from sin. And the same applies to any presumed gifts of the Spirit...though I am not as certain about the permanence of that.
God is free to allow one to heal, or prophesy, in a single case if it shows the power and glory of God for a certain purpose.
A sin would show they did not have the seed of God in them to begin with. (1 John 3:9)
Please be aware that the devil can also do miracles, and that not every miracle one encounters is from God.
We musn't use miracles as a determining factor in crediting someone with a gift of the Spirit from God.



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