Dake Bible Discussion BoardDivine Healing Technician Training Course

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Hill Top
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Re: Divine Healing Technician Training Course

Post by Hill Top » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:42 pm

luchnia wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:33 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:18 pm
luchnia wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:23 pm
I agree that it is unlikely, yet, you imply none were born again before Jesus died. That presents opposition to what He taught.
Better spell it out for us slow folks.
If men could be reborn before Jesus' death and resurrection it should be seen in scripture.
What was the born again experience that Jesus was speaking of in John chapter 3 before His death? Was that something that was not attainable while He was still living and He had to undertake His physical death first?
I have asked you a direct question.
Answer it, or admit you just don't know.
In your view, is that born-again new-birth experience different than salvation by faith in Christ? Most believe the initial experience of these two to be the same.
All the experiences of salvation are like a block wall.
We can't remove a single brick and expect the wall to stand.
Belief.
Faith.
Repentance from sin.
Baptism by water into Christ and into His death, burial, and resurrection.
Raised with Him to walk in newness of life...reborn.
Reception of the Holy Ghost, thereby quickening that which was dead in trespasses and sin.
Enduring until the end.
Without any of these "blocks" there will be no salvation.



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Spiritblade Disciple
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
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Re: Divine Healing Technician Training Course

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:13 pm

TruthSeeker wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:17 pm
God is no respecter of persons... He is only a respecter of faith.

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:42 pm
Interesting. But, perhaps, not quite accurate.
Acts 10:34-35 King James Version
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, "Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: but in every nation he that feareth Him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with Him."
It seems that it takes more than just faith. It takes fearing Him and working righteousness.

Faith alone is dead and isn't much different than the faith of devils, who believe and tremble, but do not work righteousness.
James 2:17-20 King James Version
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, "Thou hast faith, and I have works:" shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Faith alone will get you about as much respect from God as the devils get from Him.

luchnia wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:50 am
Good points. In my opinion, it takes key discernment and active living faith of God for healing. How does one "see" that an individual has faith required in such circumstances? Also where does the will of those involved come into play?
I think living faith can be seen in a person that takes action based upon what they believe. I think the will is active in deciding in whether or not to act on one's beliefs.

But, check this out. This man had his sins forgiven and his palsy healed based upon the faith that Jesus saw demonstrated by the man's friends (compare the Mark 2:1-12 with James 5:14-15). Forgiven based upon the faith of others. Wow!
Mark 2:1-12 King James Version

JESUS SAW THEIR FAITH

And again He entered into Capernaum after some days; and it was noised that He was in the house.

And straightway many were gathered together, insomuch that there was no room to receive them, no, not so much as about the door: and He preached the word unto them.

And they come unto him, bringing one sick of the palsy, which was borne of four. And when they could not come nigh unto Him for the press, they uncovered the roof where He was: and when they had broken it up, they let down the bed wherein the sick of the palsy lay.

When Jesus saw their faith, He said unto the sick of the palsy,
"Son, thy sins be forgiven thee."

But there were certain of the Scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, "Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? Who can forgive sins but God only?"

And immediately when Jesus perceived in His spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, He said unto them,
"Why reason ye these things in your hearts? Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, 'Thy sins be forgiven thee;' or to say, 'Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?'

"But that ye may know that the Son of Man hath power on Earth to forgive sins,"
(He saith to the sick of the palsy,) "I say unto thee, arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house."

And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, "We never saw it on this fashion."

luchnia wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:50 am
When considering faith, will weak faith or wavering faith work for healing?
Perhaps, in some circumstances. How strong does a person's faith need to be in order to be born again? It probably takes about the same amount of faith to be healed. True salvation is probably about as rare as true divine healing. Therefore, I am glad that with God, all things are possible.


luchnia wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:50 am
There are many types of faith listed in God's word. There was even strong faith and unfeigned faith in scripture. To me, unfeigned faith would be unshakable in all situations, but that might not be fully accurate concerning what is meant.
"Unfeigned" simply means genuine or not fake or phony. Not make believe. There's a difference between genuine faith and make believe.


luchnia wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:50 am
If faith calls things not as though they then one must see the finished product and not what is visible in the sense realm. At least you would think so.
Yes. Faith looks at the eternal, not the temporal.



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luchnia
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Re: Divine Healing Technician Training Course

Post by luchnia » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:33 am

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:13 pm
I think living faith can be seen in a person that takes action based upon what they believe. I think the will is active in deciding in whether or not to act on one's beliefs.
And immediately when Jesus perceived in His spirit that they so reasoned within themselves,
Thanks Spiritblade, good points.

The verse above is one of those verses that indicate how one must perceive such things, or at least in Jesus case which I think is also how we must perceive.

This was the concept I was referring to in another post about discernment, but a question remains, is the same perception in a man's spirit required to determine faith needed for healing or are there supporting scriptures that show otherwise? Was that how Jesus knew to heal the one brought by the faith of others, or was it simply because of their pressing action?

I think the mind of man cannot do this discernment alone. It must be the whole of the components working together. Sort of like an engine has to fire on all cylinders to work properly. What are your thoughts?


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TruthSeeker
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Re: Divine Healing Technician Training Course

Post by TruthSeeker » Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:07 pm

Hill Top wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:42 pm
luchnia wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:33 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:18 pm
luchnia wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:23 pm
I agree that it is unlikely, yet, you imply none were born again before Jesus died. That presents opposition to what He taught.
Better spell it out for us slow folks.
If men could be reborn before Jesus' death and resurrection it should be seen in scripture.
What was the born again experience that Jesus was speaking of in John chapter 3 before His death? Was that something that was not attainable while He was still living and He had to undertake His physical death first?
I have asked you a direct question.
Answer it, or admit you just don't know.
In your view, is that born-again new-birth experience different than salvation by faith in Christ? Most believe the initial experience of these two to be the same.
All the experiences of salvation are like a block wall.
We can't remove a single brick and expect the wall to stand.
Belief.
Faith.
Repentance from sin.
Baptism by water into Christ and into His death, burial, and resurrection.
Raised with Him to walk in newness of life...reborn.
Reception of the Holy Ghost, thereby quickening that which was dead in trespasses and sin.
Enduring until the end.
Without any of these "blocks" there will be no salvation.
And probably worse is adding a block that doesn't belong that leads to self righteousness, pride, deception, falling away from grace, and teaching that can defile many if one doesn't know truth. Not good to add the wrong block.




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luchnia
What Things Soever Ye Desire, When Ye Pray, Believe that Ye Receive, and Ye Shall Have
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Re: Divine Healing Technician Training Course

Post by luchnia » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:00 pm

TruthSeeker wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:07 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:42 pm
luchnia wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:33 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:18 pm
luchnia wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:23 pm
I agree that it is unlikely, yet, you imply none were born again before Jesus died. That presents opposition to what He taught.
Better spell it out for us slow folks.
If men could be reborn before Jesus' death and resurrection it should be seen in scripture.
What was the born again experience that Jesus was speaking of in John chapter 3 before His death? Was that something that was not attainable while He was still living and He had to undertake His physical death first?
I have asked you a direct question.
Answer it, or admit you just don't know.
In your view, is that born-again new-birth experience different than salvation by faith in Christ? Most believe the initial experience of these two to be the same.
All the experiences of salvation are like a block wall.
We can't remove a single brick and expect the wall to stand.
Belief.
Faith.
Repentance from sin.
Baptism by water into Christ and into His death, burial, and resurrection.
Raised with Him to walk in newness of life...reborn.
Reception of the Holy Ghost, thereby quickening that which was dead in trespasses and sin.
Enduring until the end.
Without any of these "blocks" there will be no salvation.
And probably worse is adding a block that doesn't belong that leads to self righteousness, pride, deception, falling away from grace, and teaching that can defile many if one doesn't know truth. Not good to add the wrong block.

Interesting angle and well put.


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Hill Top
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Re: Divine Healing Technician Training Course

Post by Hill Top » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:26 pm

TruthSeeker wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:07 pm
b]And probably worse is adding a block that doesn't belong that leads to self righteousness, pride, deception, falling away from grace, and teaching that can defile many if one doesn't know truth. Not good to add the wrong block.
As your "additives" have nothing to do with salvation, it doesn't seem like they can be added.
They are, however, manifestations of the lack of previously mentioned "blocks".



TruthSeeker
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Re: Divine Healing Technician Training Course

Post by TruthSeeker » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:33 pm

Hill Top wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:26 pm
TruthSeeker wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:07 pm
b]And probably worse is adding a block that doesn't belong that leads to self righteousness, pride, deception, falling away from grace, and teaching that can defile many if one doesn't know truth. Not good to add the wrong block.
As your "additives" have nothing to do with salvation, it doesn't seem like they can be added.
They are, however, manifestations of the lack of previously mentioned "blocks".
I agree that any additive to the gospel Paul preached has nothing to do with salvation, but its not my additive. But I do know someone on this board that constantly is trying to add to the requirements for biblical salvation. Paul had some strong words for any person or angel who brought another gospel than what he preached. And why it is allowed on this board I don't understand.



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Re: Divine Healing Technician Training Course

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:48 pm

TruthSeeker wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:33 pm
I do know someone on this board that constantly is trying to add to the requirements for biblical salvation.
● Please, list all of the requirements to biblical salvation?
● Who is adding to these requirements?
● Please, name them.



TruthSeeker
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Re: Divine Healing Technician Training Course

Post by TruthSeeker » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:40 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:48 pm
TruthSeeker wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:33 pm
I do know someone on this board that constantly is trying to add to the requirements for biblical salvation.
● Please, list all of the requirements to biblical salvation?

I agree with Dake's GPFM page 71 V. How it is Received first paragraph. Nothing is said there about water baptism as a requirement.

● Who is adding to these requirements?
Seriously?
HillTop

If it is agreed that water baptism is a requirement for salvation and that the baptismal water is the blood of Christ then the mission of this bible board should be changed to "The study of every wind of doctrine in dishonor of Finis J Dake".



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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: Divine Healing Technician Training Course

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:53 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:48 pm
TruthSeeker wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:33 pm
I do know someone on this board that constantly is trying to add to the requirements for biblical salvation.
● Please, list all of the requirements to biblical salvation?

TruthSeeker wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:40 pm
I agree with Dake's GPFM page 71 V. How it is Received first paragraph. Nothing is said there about water baptism as a requirement.

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:48 pm
● Who is adding to these requirements?

TruthSeeker wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:40 pm
Seriously?
HillTop

If it is agreed that water baptism is a requirement for salvation and that the baptismal water is the blood of Christ then the mission of this bible board should be changed to "The study of every wind of doctrine in dishonor of Finis J Dake".
Thank you.

No, it is not agreed that water baptism is a requirement. Hill Top has made the best case that I have seen for that argument, but since most do not agree, it is definitely fair to say that it is not agreed thereto. We need more people to present a solid biblical arguments against the varying winds of doctrine that blow hither and thither.



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