Dake Bible Discussion BoardTHREE BAPTISMS

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Hill Top
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Re: THREE BAPTISMS

Post by Hill Top » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:35 pm

luchnia wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:03 am
After all the posts on this forum, I am surprised that you perceive that these folks think that the body of Christ is rife with sin.
I didn't say they did.
I don't think one person posting here believes that. Most agree with you and the saint being free from sin with the exception of the part of falling away.
I don't believe Christ is a revolving door we can leave and come back through whenever we want.
Scripture says that because the seed of God is in a man he can't commit sin. (1 John 3:9)
You don't believe that.
From my observation the posters believe that a saint can FALL away and sin which makes the one that falls away a child of the devil and not longer in Christ and no longer a saint of God. Those that are God's are not in sin, no way, no how. If one believes that a saint is IN sin, they should challenge themselves on the many scriptures that oppose such doctrine.
From Scripture it is obvious that saints can fall away as many did. I think that is the concept that most on here adhere to and where your belief disagrees with them. If there is one that doesn't agree with that concept maybe they should step forward and state their belief.
People you deem to "have fallen away" never had the seed of God in them.
If they had, it would have prevented them from committing sin.



Hill Top
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Re: THREE BAPTISMS

Post by Hill Top » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:40 pm

luchnia wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:21 am
1 John is an awesome book and anyone that would deny that 1 John does not teach righteousness and also the possibility of falling misses out on the whole of the doctrine of 1 John. The rest of the verses in that book are as important as the ones you often post. Here are some more from chapter 3.

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
As you just posted..."whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God,"
You call them "falling away"ers.
God says they are not of Him.
I'll believe God.



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Re: THREE BAPTISMS

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:55 pm

Hill Top wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:27 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:29 am
I'm gonna guess that you'd agree that Jesus was better at parables than you are. :mrgreen:
Seeing, they see not.
Hearing, they hear not.
The outcome has been the same, so who can judge a "better" parable ?
Depends upon whether or not the ones intended to understand the parable were able and whether or not the ones that weren't supposed to understand did.

It is the author of the parable that is responsible for ensuring the intended audience understands and the unintended audience does not understand.


2 Thessalonians 2:10b-12 King James Version
... because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved... GOD SHALL SEND THEM STRONG DELUSION, that they should believe a lie: THAT THEY ALL MIGHT BE DAMNED who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Hill Top
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Re: THREE BAPTISMS

Post by Hill Top » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:54 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:55 pm
Depends upon whether or not the ones intended to understand the parable were able and whether or not the ones that weren't supposed to understand did.

It is the author of the parable that is responsible for ensuring the intended audience understands and the unintended audience does not understand.
Do you think God is still blinding the hearts of some men?
Do you feel that God didn't want anyone to understand Jesus' parables while Jesus was still alive?
It seems like even the apostles didn't "get it" most of the time.
Thanks be to God for allowing us to see, in hindsight, the "moral" in each of Jesus' parables.



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Re: THREE BAPTISMS

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:00 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:55 pm
Depends upon whether or not the ones intended to understand the parable were able and whether or not the ones that weren't supposed to understand did.

It is the author of the parable that is responsible for ensuring the intended audience understands and the unintended audience does not understand.
Hill Top wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:54 pm
Do you think God is still blinding the hearts of some men?
Yes. Most definitely.
Hill Top wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:54 pm
Do you feel that God didn't want anyone to understand Jesus' parables while Jesus was still alive?
No. Only certain people were prohibited from understanding.
Hill Top wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:54 pm
It seems like even the apostles didn't "get it" most of the time.
True.
Hill Top wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:54 pm
Thanks be to God for allowing us to see, in hindsight, the "moral" in each of Jesus' parables.
I'm sure if we discussed them, we'd probably find that we have different understandings of some of them. I am hoping to begin posting some Gospel excerpts for discussion, soon. I'm certain that some parables are in the list of what I plan to post.


2 Thessalonians 2:10b-12 King James Version
... because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved... GOD SHALL SEND THEM STRONG DELUSION, that they should believe a lie: THAT THEY ALL MIGHT BE DAMNED who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

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branham1965
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Re: THREE BAPTISMS

Post by branham1965 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:30 am

NO ONE here ever ever ever ever said that Phil.

You are teaching a mess of new doctrines.

And it is as far out in left field as it can be. +baseball

Hill Top wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:35 pm
luchnia wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:03 am
After all the posts on this forum, I am surprised that you perceive that these folks think that the body of Christ is rife with sin.
I didn't say they did.
I don't think one person posting here believes that. Most agree with you and the saint being free from sin with the exception of the part of falling away.
I don't believe Christ is a revolving door we can leave and come back through whenever we want.
Scripture says that because the seed of God is in a man he can't commit sin. (1 John 3:9)
You don't believe that.
From my observation the posters believe that a saint can FALL away and sin which makes the one that falls away a child of the devil and not longer in Christ and no longer a saint of God. Those that are God's are not in sin, no way, no how. If one believes that a saint is IN sin, they should challenge themselves on the many scriptures that oppose such doctrine.
From Scripture it is obvious that saints can fall away as many did. I think that is the concept that most on here adhere to and where your belief disagrees with them. If there is one that doesn't agree with that concept maybe they should step forward and state their belief.
People you deem to "have fallen away" never had the seed of God in them.
If they had, it would have prevented them from committing sin.



Hill Top
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Re: THREE BAPTISMS

Post by Hill Top » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:38 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:00 pm
Do you feel that God didn't want anyone to understand Jesus' parables while Jesus was still alive?
No. Only certain people were prohibited from understanding.[/quote]
Can you cite any examples where someone did understand?
I know that on occasion it is written that "the Pharisees perceived that Jesus spoke of them..."
Hill Top wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:54 pm
Thanks be to God for allowing us to see, in hindsight, the "moral" in each of Jesus' parables.
I'm sure if we discussed them, we'd probably find that we have different understandings of some of them. I am hoping to begin posting some Gospel excerpts for discussion, soon. I'm certain that some parables are in the list of what I plan to post.
That would make an interesting thread.



Hill Top
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Re: THREE BAPTISMS

Post by Hill Top » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:47 pm

branham1965 wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:30 am
NO ONE here ever ever ever ever said that Phil.
What "that" do you refer to?
You are teaching a mess of new doctrines.

And it is as far out in left field as it can be.
Not really: I'm mostly just quoting scripture to put across the notions that man can live without sin, and how to do it.
That should be perceived as "good new" to all of us.



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Re: THREE BAPTISMS

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:26 pm

Hill Top wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:38 pm
Can you cite any examples where someone did understand?
I know that on occasion it is written that "the Pharisees perceived that Jesus spoke of them..."
Sure. There are many examples of Jesus explaining them to His disciples privately. See any of them.
Matthew 13:9-18 King James Version
"Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."

And the disciples came, and said unto Him, "Why speakest Thou unto them in parables?"

He answered and said unto them,
"Because it is given unto you to know the Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

"Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, 'By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: for this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.'

"But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. For verily I say unto you, that many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

"Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower..."
Sometimes even the intended audience still needs the author of the parable to explain it to them. Even Jesus had to do this, at times. However, that doesn't mean that those with ears to hear in the general audience did not understand. Likely many did. However, those whom Jesus did not want converted so that He did not have to heal them did not understand. This understanding was even withheld from righteous men and many prophets.


2 Thessalonians 2:10b-12 King James Version
... because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved... GOD SHALL SEND THEM STRONG DELUSION, that they should believe a lie: THAT THEY ALL MIGHT BE DAMNED who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Hill Top
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Re: THREE BAPTISMS

Post by Hill Top » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:18 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:26 pm
Sure. There are many examples of Jesus explaining them to His disciples privately. See any of them.
I was wondering more along the lines of those who did not have association with Jesus
Sometimes even the intended audience still needs the author of the parable to explain it to them. Even Jesus had to do this, at times.
Indeed, as you cited above.
However, that doesn't mean that those with ears to hear in the general audience did not understand. Likely many did.
You may be right, though we have no way of knowing for certain.
However, those whom Jesus did not want converted so that He did not have to heal them did not understand. This understanding was even withheld from righteous men and many prophets.
I can't recall Jesus ever not wanting to heal...any Jews.
As for "righteous men and many prophets", do you have an example?



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