Dake Bible Discussion BoardThe failure of holding fast.

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Hill Top
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Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by Hill Top » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:17 pm

branham1965 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:51 am
NO ONE on here that i know believes in :

1.baptismal regeneration
You mean nobody here believes in rebirth?
Or do you mean nobody here believes that when they are "raised with Christ" to "walk in newness of life" at baptism, that they have been reborn...(seeing as the old man has just been killed and buried with Christ)?
2.that a child of God cannot sin and lose their salvation
You mean nobody here believes that God's seed in a man will protect a man from bearing evil fruit?
Do they also believe they can grow onions from an oak tree?
No seed can bring forth two different fruits.
3.That if a Christian sins they cannot confess that sin unto God.
See number two above.
Those born again of God's seed cannot bear evil fruit.



Hill Top
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Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by Hill Top » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:23 pm

luchnia wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:50 pm

Some key words in that sentence that really sets the two types of people apart are "if they still regard iniquity in their heart." A good example of a saved person that fell and still regarded iniquity in his heart was Judas.
Judas was saved?
One might ask what level of sincerity is required to make sure there is nothing there that might hinder a man's progress with God?
In my opinion, when a man's heart is given over to the Lord, it is all of him. Temptation that leads to sin is powerful if one gets drawn away.
There is no "partial" faith.
All or nothing !
Someone once told me about what "so and so" was doing and I said, I have mirror that I must look into so that I might see myself first.
Good one !



Hill Top
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Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by Hill Top » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:35 pm

luchnia wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:59 pm
I think you need to include the word water, because we all were baptismally regenerated, but water had nothing to do with it. I am sure you are referring to water baptism though :-D .

I only met a few in over 40 years that believe in baptismal regeneration by water, or like doctrine. I found that most of the misunderstanding was that they always associated the word water when the word baptism was used. They could not understand that baptism in most cases has nothing to do with water.

No physical element can immerse one into Christ or immerse one into the Spirit.
Can't a physical element cause one to believe? A preacher?
Can't a physical element cause one to confess? A tongue rooted in the mind?
Can't a physical element cause one to repent of all sin forever? Yourself ?
Isn't the physical element crucified, buried, and raised from the dead with Christ at "a" baptism?
You are wrong to think that your own actions and deeds are not "physical" elements.

Another question...Who made the water?



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luchnia
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Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by luchnia » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:29 pm

Hill Top wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:35 pm
luchnia wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:59 pm
I think you need to include the word water, because we all were baptismally regenerated, but water had nothing to do with it. I am sure you are referring to water baptism though :-D .

I only met a few in over 40 years that believe in baptismal regeneration by water, or like doctrine. I found that most of the misunderstanding was that they always associated the word water when the word baptism was used. They could not understand that baptism in most cases has nothing to do with water.

No physical element can immerse one into Christ or immerse one into the Spirit.
Can't a physical element cause one to believe? A preacher?
Can't a physical element cause one to confess? A tongue rooted in the mind?
Can't a physical element cause one to repent of all sin forever? Yourself ?
Isn't the physical element crucified, buried, and raised from the dead with Christ at "a" baptism?
You are wrong to think that your own actions and deeds are not "physical" elements.

Another question...Who made the water?
Some questions for you.
Which type of water should one use to remit their sins?
Should the person be fully immersed?
If there is not enough water to immerse them, should they store up enough water until they can be immersed?
What does it take to effectively remit the sins?
If the water is tainted, will it still remit sin?
Would the Dead Sea be effective for the remission of sin since it is 34.5% salinity?
Would brackish water, fresh water, or would one have to use ocean water, or possibly distilled water?
Would a thicker liquid be acceptable to remit sins if it contained a small percentage of water?
What percentage of water would suffice as the requirement to remit sins, 1,2,3,4,5% or more?


Word up!

Hill Top
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Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by Hill Top » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:04 pm

luchnia wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:29 pm
Some questions for you.
Which type of water should one use to remit their sins?
Use the water that agrees with the Spirit and blood from 1 John 5:8.
Water created by and supplied by God.
Should the person be fully immersed?
Yes, just as a dead body is "immersed" in a grave.
If there is not enough water to immerse them, should they store up enough water until they can be immersed?
There will always be enough water if someone elects to be baptized. Just as God did for the Ethiopian eunuch, so He will for you or me.
What does it take to effectively remit the sins?
It takes the blood of Christ.
And it is applied to us when we are crucified with Christ at baptism.
If the water is tainted, will it still remit sin?
Yes, as it is the blood of Christ.
Would the Dead Sea be effective for the remission of sin since it is 34.5% salinity?
Would brackish water, fresh water, or would one have to use ocean water, or possibly distilled water?
Would a thicker liquid be acceptable to remit sins if it contained a small percentage of water?
What percentage of water would suffice as the requirement to remit sins, 1,2,3,4,5% or more?
The water God provides will do the job.

My turn...
How do those who don't believe in water baptism's efficacy believe their old man is killed, buried, and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life?
How do they think the blood of Christ is applied to them for there sanctification and justification?
What do they say when it turns out they are still committing sin when they thought "they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts"?



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branham1965
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Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by branham1965 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:15 am

Phil

NO ONE believes in your teachings.

How many times are you going to post the same false doctrine on here?

No one is accepting it.Talk about something else.


Hill Top wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:17 pm
branham1965 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:51 am
NO ONE on here that i know believes in :

1.baptismal regeneration
You mean nobody here believes in rebirth?
Or do you mean nobody here believes that when they are "raised with Christ" to "walk in newness of life" at baptism, that they have been reborn...(seeing as the old man has just been killed and buried with Christ)?
2.that a child of God cannot sin and lose their salvation
You mean nobody here believes that God's seed in a man will protect a man from bearing evil fruit?
Do they also believe they can grow onions from an oak tree?
No seed can bring forth two different fruits.
3.That if a Christian sins they cannot confess that sin unto God.
See number two above.
Those born again of God's seed cannot bear evil fruit.



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branham1965
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Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by branham1965 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:36 am

Hello.

Do you believe in water baptism at all?
JESUS TAUGHT BAPTISM IN WATER FOR DISCIPLES MATTHEW 28:18-20
luchnia wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:59 pm
branham1965 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:51 am
NO ONE on here that i know believes in :

1.baptismal regeneration

2.that a child of God cannot sin and lose their salvation

3.That if a Christian sins they cannot confess that sin unto God.

REVEREND DAKE'S TEACHINGS FROM THE WORD OF GOD :angel: :angel: :angel:

HE TAUGHT SANCTIFICATION AND HOLINESS FROM THE WORD.
HE TAUGHT SALVATION AND WATER BAPTISM FROM THE WORD.
HE TAUGHT CHRISTIANS CAN BACKSLIDE AND CAN BE RESTORED FROM THE WORD.
I think you need to include the word water, because we all were baptismally regenerated, but water had nothing to do with it. I am sure you are referring to water baptism though :-D .

I only met a few in over 40 years that believe in baptismal regeneration by water, or like doctrine. I found that most of the misunderstanding was that they always associated the word water when the word baptism was used. They could not understand that baptism in most cases has nothing to do with water.

No physical element can immerse one into Christ or immerse one into the Spirit.



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luchnia
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Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by luchnia » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:44 am

branham1965 wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:36 am
Hello.

Do you believe in water baptism at all?
JESUS TAUGHT BAPTISM IN WATER FOR DISCIPLES MATTHEW 28:18-20
luchnia wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:59 pm
branham1965 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:51 am
NO ONE on here that i know believes in :

1.baptismal regeneration

2.that a child of God cannot sin and lose their salvation

3.That if a Christian sins they cannot confess that sin unto God.

REVEREND DAKE'S TEACHINGS FROM THE WORD OF GOD :angel: :angel: :angel:

HE TAUGHT SANCTIFICATION AND HOLINESS FROM THE WORD.
HE TAUGHT SALVATION AND WATER BAPTISM FROM THE WORD.
HE TAUGHT CHRISTIANS CAN BACKSLIDE AND CAN BE RESTORED FROM THE WORD.
I think you need to include the word water, because we all were baptismally regenerated, but water had nothing to do with it. I am sure you are referring to water baptism though :-D .

I only met a few in over 40 years that believe in baptismal regeneration by water, or like doctrine. I found that most of the misunderstanding was that they always associated the word water when the word baptism was used. They could not understand that baptism in most cases has nothing to do with water.

No physical element can immerse one into Christ or immerse one into the Spirit.
Not sure if your question is for me or not, but if it is for me, yes I believe 100% in water baptism, however water baptism cannot remit sins.


Word up!

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luchnia
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Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by luchnia » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:14 am

Hill Top wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:04 pm
My turn...
How do those who don't believe in water baptism's efficacy believe their old man is killed, buried, and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life?
How do they think the blood of Christ is applied to them for there sanctification and justification?
What do they say when it turns out they are still committing sin when they thought "they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts"?
Based on your doctrine here are more questions for you:

A man is on his way to get water baptized to get his past sins remitted. A young girl is texting on her cell phone while driving and swerves over into the side of his car and runs him off the road. His car flips and he perishes in the accident. Is he saved and carries his un-remitted sins with him to glory, or is he not saved and simply tough consequences on him?

Another person finds water but cannot find a pastor to immerse him. There is a small crowd of people there and he finds another person not qualified as a pastor, but the person agrees to do the baptism and does so. Is the man that was baptized sin's remitted, or does he need to go and find a qualified pastor to baptize him?

Three people are baptized during a cold day and they all have heavy clothing on. While one is immersed an air pocket develops under the back of his shirt and jacket and he does not get fully covered by water even though the pastor takes him under the water. Is his sins remitted because he went under the waterline? If so, who determines if his sins are remitted? Does he go back and tell the pastor that part of his body was not wet, or does he just keep it to himself that all of his body was not wet?

Three men, a pastor, and two men desiring baptism, are on a journey to be baptized. The pastor was never water baptzed, so his sins were never remitted. He takes the men down into the water and baptizes them. Are their sins remitted even though the pastor still had un-remitted sins?

It is the dry season and a man is on a journey to be baptised and God provides a mud hole that is about 15% water, but basically thick mud yet enough to submerse the man. Since it is the dry season and no water to be found, he is immersed in this mud by his pastor and since it is part water, however not enough to make him wet, is his sins remitted?

Finally, a man is in prison and hears God's word and becomes converted in his heart and needs to be water baptized to remit his past sins. He is scheduled to be executed in two days. He approaches the prison leaders with his request and they refuse his request. For some reason, his request is not being honored and the man's execution is fast approaching. He is terrified he will die and go to hell because he was taught a doctrine that he had to be water baptized for the remission of his past sins or he could not be saved. Finally he is lethally injected and dies without his request being met. He dies without the water baptism remission of his past sins. What is his fate?


Word up!

Hill Top
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Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by Hill Top » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:56 pm

luchnia wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:14 am
Hill Top wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:04 pm
My turn...
How do those who don't believe in water baptism's efficacy believe their old man is killed, buried, and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life?
How do they think the blood of Christ is applied to them for there sanctification and justification?
What do they say when it turns out they are still committing sin when they thought "they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts"?
Based on your doctrine here are more questions for you:

A man is on his way to get water baptized to get his past sins remitted. A young girl is texting on her cell phone while driving and swerves over into the side of his car and runs him off the road. His car flips and he perishes in the accident. Is he saved and carries his un-remitted sins with him to glory, or is he not saved and simply tough consequences on him?

Another person finds water but cannot find a pastor to immerse him. There is a small crowd of people there and he finds another person not qualified as a pastor, but the person agrees to do the baptism and does so. Is the man that was baptized sin's remitted, or does he need to go and find a qualified pastor to baptize him?

Three people are baptized during a cold day and they all have heavy clothing on. While one is immersed an air pocket develops under the back of his shirt and jacket and he does not get fully covered by water even though the pastor takes him under the water. Is his sins remitted because he went under the waterline? If so, who determines if his sins are remitted? Does he go back and tell the pastor that part of his body was not wet, or does he just keep it to himself that all of his body was not wet?

Three men, a pastor, and two men desiring baptism, are on a journey to be baptized. The pastor was never water baptzed, so his sins were never remitted. He takes the men down into the water and baptizes them. Are their sins remitted even though the pastor still had un-remitted sins?

It is the dry season and a man is on a journey to be baptised and God provides a mud hole that is about 15% water, but basically thick mud yet enough to submerse the man. Since it is the dry season and no water to be found, he is immersed in this mud by his pastor and since it is part water, however not enough to make him wet, is his sins remitted?

Finally, a man is in prison and hears God's word and becomes converted in his heart and needs to be water baptized to remit his past sins. He is scheduled to be executed in two days. He approaches the prison leaders with his request and they refuse his request. For some reason, his request is not being honored and the man's execution is fast approaching. He is terrified he will die and go to hell because he was taught a doctrine that he had to be water baptized for the remission of his past sins or he could not be saved. Finally he is lethally injected and dies without his request being met. He dies without the water baptism remission of his past sins. What is his fate?
I'm not going to answer any more of your questions till you start answering mine.



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