Dake Bible Discussion BoardThe failure of holding fast.

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Hill Top
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Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by Hill Top » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:30 pm

branham1965 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:47 am
Hill Top,
Could you please explain how you would tell an unsaved person to be saved?
Do you teach them to pray to God in the Name of Jesus and plead for mercy on the merits of the Blood of Jesus Christ /the Sinners Prayer
Or do you teach you must first be water baptized to pray.
If a man wants to love God above all else and their neighbor as themself...forever...I will teach them about repentance from sin.
If they are intent on living without sin from that point forward, we will baptize them in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins. (Acts 2:38)
If their repentance from sin was real, making them in effect non-sinners, they are told to start praying for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
God doesn't hear sinners, but His ears are open to ex-sinners who have been cleansed from all past sin.
It is written..."Blessed are they who hunger and thirst after righteousness; for they shall be filled."
The Lord will grant the Comforter/seal of the inheritance to those who love Him above all else.

The 'sinner's prayer' is an ungodly circumvention of the commandments of Jesus and of Peter.
Every single one of those who use that "prayer" still commits sin.
One doesn't disobey "their Lord and Savior".



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branham1965
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Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by branham1965 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:59 pm

That contradicts the Scriptures.And it contradicts what Reverend Dake taught from the Word.


Praying the sinners prayer to receive Christ into ones life is a ..sin to you.

Adios.
Hill Top wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:30 pm
branham1965 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:47 am
Hill Top,
Could you please explain how you would tell an unsaved person to be saved?
Do you teach them to pray to God in the Name of Jesus and plead for mercy on the merits of the Blood of Jesus Christ /the Sinners Prayer
Or do you teach you must first be water baptized to pray.
If a man wants to love God above all else and their neighbor as themself...forever...I will teach them about repentance from sin.
If they are intent on living without sin from that point forward, we will baptize them in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins. (Acts 2:38)
If their repentance from sin was real, making them in effect non-sinners, they are told to start praying for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
God doesn't hear sinners, but His ears are open to ex-sinners who have been cleansed from all past sin.
It is written..."Blessed are they who hunger and thirst after righteousness; for they shall be filled."
The Lord will grant the Comforter/seal of the inheritance to those who love Him above all else.

The 'sinner's prayer' is an ungodly circumvention of the commandments of Jesus and of Peter.
Every single one of those who use that "prayer" still commits sin.
One doesn't disobey "their Lord and Savior".



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Ironman
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Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by Ironman » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:20 pm

Turning from sin and pleading with God the shed blood of Jesus Christ to cover ones sins is not a sin and to say otherwise is sin in my humble opinion.

“David’s prayer of repentance,” King David was not a lost person before he sinned against God. David was a believer, a saint who acknowledges his sins, he has just committed adultery with Bathsheba, and he has conspired to murder her husband in battle; 2 Samuel chapter 11. The LORD sent the Prophet Nathan to rebuke David in chapter 12.
After meeting with Nathan, David prayed in Psalm 51: “Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions. Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin. For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest. thy holy spirit from me.”

Luke 18: 13, And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

Romans 10: 9-10, That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. V 10, For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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branham1965
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Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by branham1965 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:48 pm

AMEN Haz.Thanks. :angel: :angel:
Ironman wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:20 pm
Turning from sin and pleading with God the shed blood of Jesus Christ to cover ones sins is not a sin and to say otherwise is sin in my humble opinion.

“David’s prayer of repentance,” King David was not a lost person before he sinned against God. David was a believer, a saint who acknowledges his sins, he has just committed adultery with Bathsheba, and he has conspired to murder her husband in battle; 2 Samuel chapter 11. The LORD sent the Prophet Nathan to rebuke David in chapter 12.
After meeting with Nathan, David prayed in Psalm 51: “Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions. Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin. For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest. thy holy spirit from me.”

Luke 18: 13, And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

Romans 10: 9-10, That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. V 10, For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.



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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:45 pm

branham1965 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:47 am
Hill Top,
Could you please explain how you would tell an unsaved person to be saved?
Do you teach them to pray to God in the Name of Jesus and plead for mercy on the merits of the Blood of Jesus Christ /the Sinners Prayer
Or do you teach you must first be water baptized to pray.
Hill Top wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:30 pm
If a man wants to love God above all else and their neighbor as themself...forever...I will teach them about repentance from sin.
If they are intent on living without sin from that point forward, we will baptize them in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins. (Acts 2:38)
If their repentance from sin was real, making them in effect non-sinners, they are told to start praying for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
God doesn't hear sinners, but His ears are open to ex-sinners who have been cleansed from all past sin.
It is written..."Blessed are they who hunger and thirst after righteousness; for they shall be filled."
The Lord will grant the Comforter/seal of the inheritance to those who love Him above all else.

The 'sinner's prayer' is an ungodly circumvention of the commandments of Jesus and of Peter.
Every single one of those who use that "prayer" still commits sin.
One doesn't disobey "their Lord and Savior".
branham1965 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:59 pm
That contradicts the Scriptures.And it contradicts what Reverend Dake taught from the Word.


Praying the sinners prayer to receive Christ into ones life is a ..sin to you.

Adios.
I believe Hill Top is right concerning the point that the Sinner's Prayer is ineffective for those who have not truly repented of their sins.
Psalm 66:18 King James Version
If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me

[If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me] Regarding iniquity in the heart is the reason for many unanswered prayers. The writer says, If I had seen iniquity in my heart and encouraged it; if I had pretended to be what I was not; and if I had loved iniquity while I professed to pray and be sorry for my sin, the Lord (Hebrew: 'Adonay (HSN-<H136>), Supporter) would not have heard me. I would have been left without His help and support in my time of trouble. See 1Jn. 3:20-22; 5:14-15.

— Dake's Annotated Reference Bible: Containing the Old and New Testaments of the Authorized or King James Version Text.
Of the untold numbers who have prayed the Sinner's Prayer, it is very likely that the vast majority have never been saved.


Job 14:4 King James Version
Who can bring a CLEAN thing out of an UNCLEAN? Not one.

Hill Top
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Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by Hill Top » Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:01 pm

Ironman wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:20 pm
Turning from sin and pleading with God the shed blood of Jesus Christ to cover ones sins is not a sin and to say otherwise is sin in my humble opinion.
You are correct, and God provides the method of application of the "shed blood of Christ" with baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of sins.
Prayer answered !
“David’s prayer of repentance,” King David was not a lost person before he sinned against God. David was a believer, a saint who acknowledges his sins, he has just committed adultery with Bathsheba, and he has conspired to murder her husband in battle; 2 Samuel chapter 11. The LORD sent the Prophet Nathan to rebuke David in chapter 12.
After meeting with Nathan, David prayed in Psalm 51: “Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions. Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin. For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest. thy holy spirit from me.”
David was of the OT.
He was not afforded rebirth, so walked in the flesh, instead of in the Spirit, all his days on earth. (And had the tenets of the Mosaic Law for the remission of his sins)
We don't have that excuse to commit sin anymore.
Luke 18: 13, And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
This is not a remitting of sin.
The parabolic publican had to still get the goat or lamb, for the blood to wash his sins away
Romans 10: 9-10, That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. V 10, For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Why is it important to believe Jesus was raised from the dead?
Because by our "immersion" into Him, and into His death, we too are crucified, buried, and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4)
If we don't believe He was raised from the dead how can we believe we will be too?



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branham1965
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Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by branham1965 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:48 am

In God's Plan for Man
Baptism is covered in pages 533 to 544.

It is an in depth Scriptural exposition of Baptism in the Word of God.

I encourage you to buy a Dake Bible and a copy of God's Plan for Man.



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luchnia
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Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by luchnia » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:25 am

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:45 pm

I believe Hill Top is right concerning the point that the Sinner's Prayer is ineffective for those who have not truly repented of their sins.
Is the so-called sinner's prayer even biblical? If I am not mistaken that is simply a made up term and not really from the bible, yet parts of it may be biblical like calling on the name of Jesus and other things.

Conversion in the NT does not seem to indicate a sinner's prayer that one would recite. That does not mean that a sinner cannot call on the name of Jesus confess and convert and be saved, but what exactly is a "sinner's prayer" and what does that do?

The challenge here may be thinking a verbal recitation of something would save someone when it takes confessing by the mouth and believing in the heart to believe to salvation. Once one is saved the concept of prayer becomes much different as there are rules that are to be engaged such as does God hear a doubtful man that is tossed to and fro and so on.


Word up!

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branham1965
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Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by branham1965 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:44 am

No one is saying that.

I first saw this =the sinners prayer to receive Christ on the Billy Graham :angel: broadcast many years ago.
He taught from the Word and made Jesus real to me.

Read in the Dake Bible about the new birth.

Anyone teaching that a person cannot cry out to the Lord and confess their sins and receive Christ into their heart as Savior and Lord is :neutral:

Acts 22:16 Paul was told to "invoke the name of the Lord in prayer" says one Greek lexicon. Also John Baptist converts confessed theirs sins during baptism.JESUS CHRIST prayed when He was baptized by John Baptist.Paul prayed before he was baptized.

Reverend Dake has the TRUE GOSPEL plan of salvation on page 30 -31 of God's Plan for Man.
He includes a prayer for forgiveness there.


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luchnia wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:25 am
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:45 pm

I believe Hill Top is right concerning the point that the Sinner's Prayer is ineffective for those who have not truly repented of their sins.
Is the so-called sinner's prayer even biblical? If I am not mistaken that is simply a made up term and not really from the bible, yet parts of it may be biblical like calling on the name of Jesus and other things.

Conversion in the NT does not seem to indicate a sinner's prayer that one would recite. That does not mean that a sinner cannot call on the name of Jesus confess and convert and be saved, but what exactly is a "sinner's prayer" and what does that do?

The challenge here may be thinking a verbal recitation of something would save someone when it takes confessing by the mouth and believing in the heart to believe to salvation. Once one is saved the concept of prayer becomes much different as there are rules that are to be engaged such as does God hear a doubtful man that is tossed to and fro and so on.



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luchnia
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Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by luchnia » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:50 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:45 pm
Of the untold numbers who have prayed the Sinner's Prayer, it is very likely that the vast majority have never been saved.
Sadly and even disturbing is the fact that your point may be "on the money" so to state.

I have seen a few genuine conversions and they did not come from the "sinners prayer" but from a pierced heart. I will be the first to admit, I have only seen a small few what I believe to be true conversions, but I knew from the changed life and new path being walked they were true.

My guess is many today are "playing" the game and are not converted as their lives do not reflect it. So many operate on emotions that are sparked by smooth talking preachers that tickle the ears of the listener. As Dake implies in one of his books one must come to God and TRULY RECOGNIZE that they are a sinner and in need of saving.

I think the evidence of a new life must be exhibited from a sincere heart. Old things don't exist to one that is made new as they have been put away. To me, it is obvious if one repents and doesn't forsake sin they still belong to the devil and haven't changed.

Repentance and forsaking sin would indicate a solid conversion in the heart of an individual. It is my opinion that those that think they will sin their way to eternal life will be in for a shrewd awakening when they cross over the portal to their eternal destiny.


Word up!

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