Dake Bible Discussion BoardThe failure of holding fast.

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bibleman
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Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by bibleman » Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:42 pm

Hill Top wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:36 pm
bibleman wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:03 pm
Hi Hill Top
Above you said: "I do believe that those who have God's seed in them cannot fall away,..."
Then you say: "We must be wary till the end of our lives, not to be found wanting at the end of time."

Question if we cannot fall away as you first say... Then how can your second statement possible make any kind of sense? "We must be wary till the end of our lives, not to be found wanting at the end of time."
There is a war for our souls going on.
Every day, trials will assault our heritage in Christ.
Those with God's seed in them will do all they can not to fall, and by the grace of God will weather every trial.
Those without God's seed in them cannot resist all the temptations of this world.
By the gifts given to us by God we are capable of remaining pure: but if we neglect or ignore those gifts we show from whose seed we are really of.

Remaining a Christian takes effort.
Christianity isn't a "force field" from sin.
It is the tools we require to manifest we are of God.

BTW, it isn't "me" that says we can't fall away.
It is 1 John 3:9.
Thanks for the reply.

Above you said: "Those with God's seed in them will do all they can not to fall, and by the grace of God will weather every trial."

Well again above you said: ""I do believe that those who have God's seed in them cannot fall away,..."

Well if those who have God's seed in them CANNOT fall away then then who cares what they do to weather the storm?

What does it matter what they do... according to what you are saying they CANNOT fall away anyway... then there is no sense in them trying to "do all they can not to fall," since they are never going to fall anyway.

Seems your doctrine is some version of OSAS...


God bless
Leon Bible

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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

Hill Top
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Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by Hill Top » Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:06 am

bibleman wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:42 pm
Thanks for the reply.
Above you said: "Those with God's seed in them will do all they can not to fall, and by the grace of God will weather every trial."
Well again above you said: ""I do believe that those who have God's seed in them cannot fall away,..."
Well if those who have God's seed in them CANNOT fall away then then who cares what they do to weather the storm?
"They" do.
What does it matter what they do... according to what you are saying they CANNOT fall away anyway... then there is no sense in them trying to "do all they can not to fall," since they are never going to fall anyway.
If, as scripture says in 1 John 3:9, those with God's seed in them cannot commit sin, its because they remain faithful in spite of all temptation.
Seems your doctrine is some version of OSAS...
Salvation won't be assured till after the final judgement.
OSAS is a moot point.
Won't you fight with all your might to be found faithful?

OSAS is based on salvation IN SPITE of one's doings.
The doctrine which is according to Godliness, (1 Tim 6:3), is based on loving God above all else and our neighbors as ourselves.
God makes it possible to remain obedient, faithful.
How?
By insuring we are not tempted above what we are able to resist. (1 Cor 10;13)
God is the root of the vine that is Jesus.
We, the branches, cannot bring forth fruit that is not of God.
If you do, you show you are not connected to the vine or the root.

We cannot "fall away" because we take advantage of what God has provided for our strength and resistance to sin.
If we don't use what God has provided...we will show we were not of God..

Those purported to have "fallen away" never had the seed of God in them in the first place.
They brought forth evil fruit, showing from whence they are born.



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Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by bibleman » Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:28 pm

Hill Top wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:06 am
bibleman wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:42 pm
Thanks for the reply.
Above you said: "Those with God's seed in them will do all they can not to fall, and by the grace of God will weather every trial."
Well again above you said: ""I do believe that those who have God's seed in them cannot fall away,..."
Well if those who have God's seed in them CANNOT fall away then then who cares what they do to weather the storm?
"They" do.
What does it matter what they do... according to what you are saying they CANNOT fall away anyway... then there is no sense in them trying to "do all they can not to fall," since they are never going to fall anyway.
If, as scripture says in 1 John 3:9, those with God's seed in them cannot commit sin, its because they remain faithful in spite of all temptation.
Seems your doctrine is some version of OSAS...
Salvation won't be assured till after the final judgement.
OSAS is a moot point.
Won't you fight with all your might to be found faithful?

OSAS is based on salvation IN SPITE of one's doings.
The doctrine which is according to Godliness, (1 Tim 6:3), is based on loving God above all else and our neighbors as ourselves.
God makes it possible to remain obedient, faithful.
How?
By insuring we are not tempted above what we are able to resist. (1 Cor 10;13)
God is the root of the vine that is Jesus.
We, the branches, cannot bring forth fruit that is not of God.
If you do, you show you are not connected to the vine or the root.

We cannot "fall away" because we take advantage of what God has provided for our strength and resistance to sin.
If we don't use what God has provided...we will show we were not of God..

Those purported to have "fallen away" never had the seed of God in them in the first place.
They brought forth evil fruit, showing from whence they are born.
Hi

Above you said: "Those purported to have "fallen away" never had the seed of God in them in the first place."

That is classic OSAS theology which the Bible does not agree with.


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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branham1965
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Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by branham1965 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:21 am

+ummm +gotit Thank you Pastor for the posts.



Hill Top
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Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by Hill Top » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:44 pm

bibleman wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:28 pm
Above you said: "Those purported to have "fallen away" never had the seed of God in them in the first place."

That is classic OSAS theology which the Bible does not agree with.
Perhaps you could explain the connection between my sentence and OSAS?
Or show verses that mention it?

All false "theology" starts from a grain of truth.



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Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by bibleman » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:24 am

Hill Top wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:44 pm
bibleman wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:28 pm
Above you said: "Those purported to have "fallen away" never had the seed of God in them in the first place."

That is classic OSAS theology which the Bible does not agree with.
Perhaps you could explain the connection between my sentence and OSAS?
Or show verses that mention it?

All false "theology" starts from a grain of truth.
Once a person is saved they are always saved - OSAS

This is what you teach in a nut shell. Correct?


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:59 am

bibleman wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:24 am
Hill Top wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:44 pm
bibleman wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:28 pm
Above you said: "Those purported to have "fallen away" never had the seed of God in them in the first place."

That is classic OSAS theology which the Bible does not agree with.
Perhaps you could explain the connection between my sentence and OSAS?
Or show verses that mention it?

All false "theology" starts from a grain of truth.
Once a person is saved they are always saved - OSAS

This is what you teach in a nut shell. Correct?
I thought Hill Top actually teaches that sinners can be certain that they were never really saved. And, that people that have been water baptized and have not sinned since then might be saved, but they cannot be sure because they might sin at some point in the future.

Doesn't sound like simple OSAS, to me. It lacks the certainty that most OSAS seem to have about whether or not they are saved. Hill Top's position seems to be Finally Saved, Always Saved.


KNOW YOU'RE KNEW
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." — 2 CORINTHIANS 5:17

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branham1965
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Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by branham1965 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:47 am

Hill Top,

Could you please explain how you would tell an unsaved person to be saved?

Do you teach them to pray to God in the Name of Jesus and plead for mercy on the merits of the Blood of Jesus Christ /the Sinners Prayer
Or do you teach you must first be water baptized to pray.

+cross



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Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by bibleman » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:59 am

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:59 am
bibleman wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:24 am
Hill Top wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:44 pm
bibleman wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:28 pm
Above you said: "Those purported to have "fallen away" never had the seed of God in them in the first place."

That is classic OSAS theology which the Bible does not agree with.
Perhaps you could explain the connection between my sentence and OSAS?
Or show verses that mention it?

All false "theology" starts from a grain of truth.
Once a person is saved they are always saved - OSAS

This is what you teach in a nut shell. Correct?
I thought Hill Top actually teaches that sinners can be certain that they were never really saved. And, that people that have been water baptized and have not sinned since then might be saved, but they cannot be sure because they might sin at some point in the future.

Doesn't sound like simple OSAS, to me. It lacks the certainty that most OSAS seem to have about whether or not they are saved. Hill Top's position seems to be Finally Saved, Always Saved.
:angel:


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

Hill Top
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Posts: 660
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: The failure of holding fast.

Post by Hill Top » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:16 pm

bibleman wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:24 am
Once a person is saved they are always saved - OSAS

This is what you teach in a nut shell. Correct?
Thanks.
That being the case, seeing as our salvation won't be assured till after the final judgement, I guess i agree with that description of OSAS.
I'll be saved when I hear that my name is in the book of life, and forever thereafter.

Unfortunately, the OSAS folks don't think they have to remain faithful till the end, and will be saved no matter what infidelity they show.
They cling to a lie.



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