Dake Bible Discussion BoardWhat is man.

General Discussion Forum devoted to the study of God's Word in Honor of Finis J. Dake.
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luchnia
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Re: What is man.

Post by luchnia » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:38 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:56 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:48 pm
branham1965 wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:25 pm
Dad Hagin teaches about developing a righteousness consciousness instead of a sin consciousness.
We can't have a righteous consciousness without righteousness.
Hagin's position, if I recall correctly, was to focus on the righteousness of the born again human spirit, regardless of how the flesh behaved and then to train the soul (mind/will/emotions) to be in agreement with what the Bible says about the born again man. Then, together, the human spirit and soul would overpower the flesh.

Hagin, unlike Dake, saw the wretched man of Romans 7 as a saved man who was flesh-ruled instead of spirit-ruled. Therefore, Hagin could accept a person as saved who was actively sinning, because it was the flesh that was sinning, not the human spirit (which was almost incapable of sin, once born again*).


* Hagin allowed for a person to willfully reject their salvation, if they met certain qualifications, such as being a mature believer. The immature could not lose their salvation.

Hopefully, I'm remembering what Hagin taught correctly.
Dake taught the opposite to Hagin in the area of salvation. Hagin did not teach that sin damns the soul of man and separates him from God as Dake taught.

Here is a excerpt from Hagin on rhema website (bolding is my emphasis):
"Whenever a person accepts Christ as his Savior, his spirit is recreated and his sins are remitted once and for all. You may wonder, What happens if the person misses it after he is born again? What if he sins? Any Christian who commits sins receives forgiveness. If he were to receive remission, everything he had ever done in the past—both good and bad—would be wiped out. Even his New Birth would be erased. But that is not the case, because the Christian—the person who is already born again—does not receive remission; he receives forgiveness.

Thank God for that word forgiveness. It is a fellowship word, speaking from a New Testament point of view. When a child of God sins, he breaks fellowship with the Father but he does not break relationship.

An example of this is when a husband and wife quarrel. They don’t break their relationship—they are still married. However, they have broken their fellowship, and they need to ask one another for forgiveness.

Similarly, when Christians sin, their fellowship with God is broken. They are still part of His family. They simply need to ask for forgiveness. Their way back into fellowship is found in First John 1:9: “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” When we do this, we once again stand in the presence of God as though we had never done wrong.
"

If unrighteousness is not of God, how would an unrighteous person still be "in the family" of God? That would imply that God's family is full of unrighteous people and not righteous saints. That would indicate that they are not made the righteousness of God through Christ.


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Hill Top
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Re: What is man.

Post by Hill Top » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:57 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:56 pm
Hagin's position, if I recall correctly, was to focus on the righteousness of the born again human spirit, regardless of how the flesh behaved and then to train the soul (mind/will/emotions) to be in agreement with what the Bible says about the born again man. Then, together, the human spirit and soul would overpower the flesh.
He doesn't believe in complete rebirth.
Who is in charge of the skin?
The reborn mind !
Your flesh can't commit sin without the mind's consent and complicity.
Hagin, unlike Dake, saw the wretched man of Romans 7 as a saved man who was flesh-ruled instead of spirit-ruled. Therefore, Hagin could accept a person as saved who was actively sinning, because it was the flesh that was sinning, not the human spirit (which was almost incapable of sin, once born again*).
Again...who is in charge of the flesh?
The mind !
* Hagin allowed for a person to willfully reject their salvation, if they met certain qualifications, such as being a mature believer. The immature could not lose their salvation.
Hopefully, I'm remembering what Hagin taught correctly.
Qualifications to reject salvation?
Wow.



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luchnia
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Re: What is man.

Post by luchnia » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:07 am

When a child of God sins, he breaks fellowship with the Father but he does not break relationship.

Similarly, when Christians sin, their fellowship with God is broken. They are still part of His family. They simply need to ask for forgiveness.
BTW, I thought I would note that I know some folks that I see often that teach this very thing almost exactly like Hagin puts it. Every time they bring it up, makes me cringe because it is against scripture.

To think God would allow sin in the life of a saint should make anyone that loves God righteously steaming!


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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: What is man.

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:48 am

Hill Top wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:57 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:56 pm
Hagin's position, if I recall correctly, was to focus on the righteousness of the born again human spirit, regardless of how the flesh behaved and then to train the soul (mind/will/emotions) to be in agreement with what the Bible says about the born again man. Then, together, the human spirit and soul would overpower the flesh.
He doesn't believe in complete rebirth.
Who is in charge of the skin?
The reborn mind !
Your flesh can't commit sin without the mind's consent and complicity.
Hagin, unlike Dake, saw the wretched man of Romans 7 as a saved man who was flesh-ruled instead of spirit-ruled. Therefore, Hagin could accept a person as saved who was actively sinning, because it was the flesh that was sinning, not the human spirit (which was almost incapable of sin, once born again*).
Again...who is in charge of the flesh?
The mind !
* Hagin allowed for a person to willfully reject their salvation, if they met certain qualifications, such as being a mature believer. The immature could not lose their salvation.
Hopefully, I'm remembering what Hagin taught correctly.
Qualifications to reject salvation?
Wow.
Hagin had a different view of how things worked than Dake or others. For him, when a person was born again, it was only their human spirit that was born again. The mind and body were unchanged. And, unless the mind was trained and disciplined in the things of God, the mind and body would dominate the reborn spirit and continue as they had before the new birth experience. But, such continuation didn't mean the person was not really born again or continuing in salvation. It just meant that they were in need of converting their carnal mind into a spiritual mind.


Job 14:4 King James Version
Who can bring a CLEAN thing out of an UNCLEAN? Not one.

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luchnia
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Re: What is man.

Post by luchnia » Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:23 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:48 am
Hagin had a different view of how things worked than Dake or others. For him, when a person was born again, it was only their human spirit that was born again. The mind and body were unchanged. And, unless the mind was trained and disciplined in the things of God, the mind and body would dominate the reborn spirit and continue as they had before the new birth experience. But, such continuation didn't mean the person was not really born again or continuing in salvation. It just meant that they were in need of converting their carnal mind into a spiritual mind.
I think you summed that up well. It is almost as if he thought that they were two non-interacting parts that yet somehow still indwelled in one body that was in sin. It makes me think that if the mind and body were unchanged then then those two parts could commit murder and the new born spirit could not. Seems rather silly when you think about it.

Granted one would not have all light of the mind at the new birth as the mind needs some transforming (not for the sake of sin), but there is nothing in that process that says one born again is commiting sin in the flesh and somehow the spirit is clean. That would not appear to be a changed man at all.


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branham1965
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Re: What is man.

Post by branham1965 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:29 pm

I could not agree more macca.


macca wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:29 am
You are very wrong about Dad Hagan he never taught that rubbish.
That is the straw that broke the camels back.
Bye



Hill Top
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Re: What is man.

Post by Hill Top » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:51 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:48 am
Hagin had a different view of how things worked than Dake or others. For him, when a person was born again, it was only their human spirit that was born again. The mind and body were unchanged. And, unless the mind was trained and disciplined in the things of God, the mind and body would dominate the reborn spirit and continue as they had before the new birth experience. But, such continuation didn't mean the person was not really born again or continuing in salvation. It just meant that they were in need of converting their carnal mind into a spiritual mind.
This is a doctrine that accommodates sin.
It provides a reason for continued sinning and even includes the rebirth (partially)
Grape vines that have been reborn as fig trees cannot still bring forth grapes.



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branham1965
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Re: What is man.

Post by branham1965 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:11 pm

This is really out of hand on here.



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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: What is man.

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:37 pm

macca wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:29 am
You are very wrong about Dad Hagan he never taught that rubbish.
That is the straw that broke the camels back.
Bye
branham1965 wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:29 pm
I could not agree more macca.
Where did Hagin teach contrary to this?


Job 14:4 King James Version
Who can bring a CLEAN thing out of an UNCLEAN? Not one.

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Ironman
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Re: What is man.

Post by Ironman » Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:24 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:37 pm
macca wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:29 am
You are very wrong about Dad Hagan he never taught that rubbish.
That is the straw that broke the camels back.
Bye
branham1965 wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:29 pm
I could not agree more macca.
Where did Hagin teach contrary to this?
Los Cabos Mexico :lol!: :lol!:


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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