Dake Bible Discussion BoardPurpose of the law

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Hill Top
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Re: Purpose of the law

Post by Hill Top » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:53 pm

TruthSeeker wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:11 pm
If a person is in a hospital ready to die who has not been reborn and someone comes in and shares the gospel. That person according to Romans 10:9 confesses Jesus as their Lord and believes that God raised Him from the dead. That person's eternal destiny hinges on whether they can make it to the bath tub and be baptized before he takes his last breath?

Your understanding of Rom 10:9 is different than mine.
The reason to believe Jesus was raised from the dead is so that we can be raised with Him...at water baptism.
It is written..."Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:" (Rom 6:8)
If the hospitalized man, in his "body of sin", doesn't die with Christ, he won't live with Him either.
That man had an entire lifetime to convert. He has had enough time to choose whom he will serve.



Hill Top
God Giveth Liberally to All Men and Upbraideth Not
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Re: Purpose of the law

Post by Hill Top » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:58 pm

luchnia wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:29 pm
Just as anyone gets baptized, as an outward form of obedience that shows an inward change.
Show me that from the bible.
As you don't believe in the importance of baptism, I guess you don't believe it is really a sign of inward change either.
Why dispense with one command of Jesus Christ to enact another non-Jesus commandment?

BTW, I was baptized in water for the remission of past sins. (Acts 2:38)
I was baptized to gain "the answer of a good conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:" (1 Peter 3:21)
I was baptized to kill the old man of the flesh, to bury him, and to be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-6)
Reborn...with Jesus.
I was baptized to "crucify the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)



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luchnia
No Evil Shall Befall Them that Make the Lord Their Habitation
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Re: Purpose of the law

Post by luchnia » Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:03 am

Hill Top wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:58 pm
luchnia wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:29 pm
Just as anyone gets baptized, as an outward form of obedience that shows an inward change.
Show me that from the bible.
As you don't believe in the importance of baptism, I guess you don't believe it is really a sign of inward change either.
Why dispense with one command of Jesus Christ to enact another non-Jesus commandment?

BTW, I was baptized in water for the remission of past sins. (Acts 2:38)
I was baptized to gain "the answer of a good conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:" (1 Peter 3:21)
I was baptized to kill the old man of the flesh, to bury him, and to be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-6)
Reborn...with Jesus.
I was baptized to "crucify the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
In my opinion, you are confusing baptisms. I fully believe in the importance of baptism - all of them, however a baptism in water saves no one. Being submerged in water has no saving power.

What about the other baptisms? What are their relevance? What about the baptism in Christ, or the baptism in the Spirit? Are those null and only water baptism important to salvation? I have an assumption of your belief on this, yet figured this might be beneficial to others that read these posts.


Word up!

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luchnia
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Re: Purpose of the law

Post by luchnia » Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:05 am

Hill Top wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:58 pm
luchnia wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:29 pm
Just as anyone gets baptized, as an outward form of obedience that shows an inward change.
Show me that from the bible.
Go read about John baptizing Jesus in the Jordan. You think Jesus needed saving by water baptism, or do you think that was a sign to fulfill?


Word up!

TruthSeeker
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Re: Purpose of the law

Post by TruthSeeker » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:49 am

Hill Top wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:53 pm
TruthSeeker wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:11 pm
If a person is in a hospital ready to die who has not been reborn and someone comes in and shares the gospel. That person according to Romans 10:9 confesses Jesus as their Lord and believes that God raised Him from the dead. That person's eternal destiny hinges on whether they can make it to the bath tub and be baptized before he takes his last breath?


That man had an entire lifetime to convert. He has had enough time to choose whom he will serve.


At what % of a person's life is he/she cut off from any chance of being reborn. 90% of them living and not repenting? How about 91%, 92%, 95%, etc. At what point does God say "That's it! They have passed the point of ever receiving any of my mercy?"


I believe that God's mercy is extended to a few moments before their they very last breath. Which would be impossible to be baptized at that point.



Hill Top
God Giveth Liberally to All Men and Upbraideth Not
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Re: Purpose of the law

Post by Hill Top » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:22 pm

luchnia wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:03 am
In my opinion, you are confusing baptisms. I fully believe in the importance of baptism - all of them, however a baptism in water saves no one. Being submerged in water has no saving power.
You are "wallowing" again.
You say you believe all the baptisms are important, then exclude water baptism.
Make up your mind!
What about the other baptisms? What are their relevance? What about the baptism in Christ, or the baptism in the Spirit? Are those null and only water baptism important to salvation? I have an assumption of your belief on this, yet figured this might be beneficial to others that read these posts.
Water baptism is our duty, and a commandment from Jesus. (Mark 16:16)
It is where are our sins are remitted, our old man crucified, buried, and raised with Christ, reborn with Christ to walk in newness of life.
It is how we are "immersed" into Christ.
It is where the flesh is crucified with the affections and lusts.
Without it, you are not washed of your past sins, made a man of the Spirit, freed from the flesh, or reborn.
Baptism in the Holy Spirit is God's gift to us for a true repentance from sin.



Hill Top
God Giveth Liberally to All Men and Upbraideth Not
Posts: 660
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: Purpose of the law

Post by Hill Top » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:30 pm

luchnia wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:05 am
Go read about John baptizing Jesus in the Jordan. You think Jesus needed saving by water baptism, or do you think that was a sign to fulfill?
No, Jesus didn't need to be saved at all.
This was the fulfillment of the "pattern" set forth from the OT.
Specifically the washing of the Levites before they were to "execute the service of the Lord". (Num 8:6-11).



Hill Top
God Giveth Liberally to All Men and Upbraideth Not
Posts: 660
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: Purpose of the law

Post by Hill Top » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:33 pm

TruthSeeker wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:49 am
At what % of a person's life is he/she cut off from any chance of being reborn. 90% of them living and not repenting? How about 91%, 92%, 95%, etc. At what point does God say "That's it! They have passed the point of ever receiving any of my mercy?"
I believe that God's mercy is extended to a few moments before their they very last breath. Which would be impossible to be baptized at that point.

Then we "believe" differently.



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luchnia
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Re: Purpose of the law

Post by luchnia » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:38 pm

Hill Top wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:22 pm
luchnia wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:03 am
In my opinion, you are confusing baptisms. I fully believe in the importance of baptism - all of them, however a baptism in water saves no one. Being submerged in water has no saving power.
You are "wallowing" again.
You say you believe all the baptisms are important, then exclude water baptism.
Make up your mind!
What about the other baptisms? What are their relevance? What about the baptism in Christ, or the baptism in the Spirit? Are those null and only water baptism important to salvation? I have an assumption of your belief on this, yet figured this might be beneficial to others that read these posts.
Water baptism is our duty, and a commandment from Jesus. (Mark 16:16)
It is where are our sins are remitted, our old man crucified, buried, and raised with Christ, reborn with Christ to walk in newness of life.
It is how we are "immersed" into Christ.
It is where the flesh is crucified with the affections and lusts.
Without it, you are not washed of your past sins, made a man of the Spirit, freed from the flesh, or reborn.
Baptism in the Holy Spirit is God's gift to us for a true repentance from sin.
I have not once excluded water baptism. I stated that water baptism saves no one. There is a difference in those statements.

Water baptism does not remit sins as it does not have power to remit sins. Water baptism does not crucify, bury, or raise the flesh with Jesus. Water baptism does not make one new in Christ. Water baptism is powerless to do any of those things. Water baptism does not put off the old man and put on the new. It is water baptism, not spirit baptism, nor the baptism in Christ.

What is it that makes you think that being immersed in water would do any of those things? Did Jesus' water baptism crucify His flesh, remit His sins, and cause Him to walk in newness of life?


Word up!

Hill Top
God Giveth Liberally to All Men and Upbraideth Not
Posts: 660
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: Purpose of the law

Post by Hill Top » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:51 pm

luchnia wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:38 pm
I have not once excluded water baptism. I stated that water baptism saves no one. There is a difference in those statements.
You should reread your posts.
Water baptism does not remit sins as it does not have power to remit sins.
It is written..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)
Water baptism does not crucify, bury, or raise the flesh with Jesus. Water baptism does not make one new in Christ. Water baptism is powerless to do any of those things. Water baptism does not put off the old man and put on the new.
It is water baptism, not spirit baptism, nor the baptism in Christ.
It is written..." Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." (Rom 6:3-6)
Again you refute yourself with the last line.
What is it that makes you think that being immersed in water would do any of those things? Did Jesus' water baptism crucify His flesh, remit His sins, and cause Him to walk in newness of life?
The bible makes me KNOW these things.
In fact, the proof of these things happening at water baptism is written in verse 7 of Romans 6..."For he that is dead is freed from sin."
I am free from sin because of the miracles inherent in water baptism.

Jesus had no sin to remit.
Our partaking in His death, burial, and resurrection allows our death, burial and resurrection with Christ.
It is the only way to be "freed from sin".



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