Dake Bible Discussion BoardPurpose of the law

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TruthSeeker
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Purpose of the law

Post by TruthSeeker » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:07 am

My local pastor/church believes that those in the O.T. were not born again/spirit filled and Dake believed they were.
This morning I was reading in Galatians 3:19 that the law was added because of transgressions till the seed should come who was Christ.
Why did those in the O.T. before Christ need a law because of transgression if they were born again/spirit filled and those in the N.T. do not?



Hill Top
Teach All Nations to Observe All Things Whatsoever Jesus Hath Commanded
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Re: Purpose of the law

Post by Hill Top » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:44 pm

TruthSeeker wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:07 am
My local pastor/church believes that those in the O.T. were not born again/spirit filled and Dake believed they were.
I'ld stick with your local pastor on this one.
Men couldn't be reborn before Jesus allowed us to partake in His death, burial, and resurrection as new creatures.
I thank God for this aspect of water baptism in Jesus' name.
This morning I was reading in Galatians 3:19 that the law was added because of transgressions till the seed should come who was Christ.
Why did those in the O.T. before Christ need a law because of transgression if they were born again/spirit filled and those in the N.T. do not?
From Rom 7:13 we see..."But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful."
The law made it clear that those things counted as sinful were VERY sinful/wicked/evil, because God declared it.
And again, they had not been reborn.



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luchnia
He Which Soweth Sparingly Shall Reap also Sparingly
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Re: Purpose of the law

Post by luchnia » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:56 pm

TruthSeeker wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:07 am
My local pastor/church believes that those in the O.T. were not born again/spirit filled and Dake believed they were.
This morning I was reading in Galatians 3:19 that the law was added because of transgressions till the seed should come who was Christ.
Why did those in the O.T. before Christ need a law because of transgression if they were born again/spirit filled and those in the N.T. do not?
Good post.

Why would being born again exempt one from the law and why wouldn't OT believers not be born of the Spirit as they are today? There is really nothing different in that aspect whether the old law is enforced or not. Jesus said that if a man not be born of the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. Jesus did not isolate that statement to a certain time frame.

I am not sure I fully understand the point, yet it may be that using the old (mosaic) law in this context is only problematic to understanding the born again experience in the old testament times.


Word up!

TruthSeeker
Wrestle Not Against Flesh and Blood
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:50 am

Re: Purpose of the law

Post by TruthSeeker » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:19 pm

Hill Top wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:44 pm
TruthSeeker wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:07 am
My local pastor/church believes that those in the O.T. were not born again/spirit filled and Dake believed they were.
I'ld stick with your local pastor on this one.
Men couldn't be reborn before Jesus allowed us to partake in His death, burial, and resurrection as new creatures.
I thank God for this aspect of water baptism in Jesus' name.


What do you believe determined whether those in the O.T. went to heaven or hell?



TruthSeeker
Wrestle Not Against Flesh and Blood
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:50 am

Re: Purpose of the law

Post by TruthSeeker » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:30 pm

luchnia wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:56 pm
TruthSeeker wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:07 am
My local pastor/church believes that those in the O.T. were not born again/spirit filled and Dake believed they were.
This morning I was reading in Galatians 3:19 that the law was added because of transgressions till the seed should come who was Christ.
Why did those in the O.T. before Christ need a law because of transgression if they were born again/spirit filled and those in the N.T. do not?
Good post.

Why would being born again exempt one from the law and why wouldn't OT believers not be born of the Spirit as they are today? There is really nothing different in that aspect whether the old law is enforced or not. Jesus said that if a man not be born of the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. Jesus did not isolate that statement to a certain time frame.

I am not sure I fully understand the point, yet it may be that using the old (mosaic) law in this context is only problematic to understanding the born again experience in the old testament times.
Galatians 3:8-9 says that the gospel was preached to Abraham and those that believe are blessed with him. So if those in the O.T. that believed the gospel had righteousness imputed to them, what was the purpose of the law for them compared to us now? For in 1 Tim 1:9 it says the law is not made for the righteous. Was the law in the O.T. just for those who did not believe the gospel (Heb. 4:2) or were they not made righteous/born again like we are now although Dake believed they were?



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luchnia
He Which Soweth Sparingly Shall Reap also Sparingly
Posts: 1464
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Re: Purpose of the law

Post by luchnia » Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:18 pm

TruthSeeker wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:30 pm
luchnia wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:56 pm
TruthSeeker wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:07 am
My local pastor/church believes that those in the O.T. were not born again/spirit filled and Dake believed they were.
This morning I was reading in Galatians 3:19 that the law was added because of transgressions till the seed should come who was Christ.
Why did those in the O.T. before Christ need a law because of transgression if they were born again/spirit filled and those in the N.T. do not?
Good post.

Why would being born again exempt one from the law and why wouldn't OT believers not be born of the Spirit as they are today? There is really nothing different in that aspect whether the old law is enforced or not. Jesus said that if a man not be born of the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. Jesus did not isolate that statement to a certain time frame.

I am not sure I fully understand the point, yet it may be that using the old (mosaic) law in this context is only problematic to understanding the born again experience in the old testament times.
Galatians 3:8-9 says that the gospel was preached to Abraham and those that believe are blessed with him. So if those in the O.T. that believed the gospel had righteousness imputed to them, what was the purpose of the law for them compared to us now? For in 1 Tim 1:9 it says the law is not made for the righteous. Was the law in the O.T. just for those who did not believe the gospel (Heb. 4:2) or were they not made righteous/born again like we are now although Dake believed they were?
Well as you put it earlier post, the law was for transgressors. I do believe much as Dake did on this issue. I am glad you put the note in about Abraham, because as it reminds me that Abraham was a long time before the mosaic law.


Word up!

Hill Top
Teach All Nations to Observe All Things Whatsoever Jesus Hath Commanded
Posts: 832
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: Purpose of the law

Post by Hill Top » Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:03 pm

TruthSeeker wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:19 pm
What do you believe determined whether those in the O.T. went to heaven or hell?
Their adherence to the Law would determine their salvation.
I'll bet they thanked God frequently for their ability to atone for their sins with the blood of goats and bulls.



Hill Top
Teach All Nations to Observe All Things Whatsoever Jesus Hath Commanded
Posts: 832
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Re: Purpose of the law

Post by Hill Top » Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:14 pm

TruthSeeker wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:30 pm
Galatians 3:8-9 says that the gospel was preached to Abraham and those that believe are blessed with him. So if those in the O.T. that believed the gospel had righteousness imputed to them, what was the purpose of the law for them compared to us now? For in 1 Tim 1:9 it says the law is not made for the righteous. Was the law in the O.T. just for those who did not believe the gospel (Heb. 4:2) or were they not made righteous/born again like we are now although Dake believed they were?
The "good news" they heard was that of a coming Savior, not imputed righteousness.
As nobody in the OT could kill the flesh and be reborn of the Spirit, their righteousness hinged on adherence to the Mosaic Law.
A law they were incapable of following because they were still men of the flesh.
Fortunately, for them, God gave them the means of atonement for sin.



TruthSeeker
Wrestle Not Against Flesh and Blood
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:50 am

Re: Purpose of the law

Post by TruthSeeker » Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:26 am

Hill Top wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:44 pm
TruthSeeker wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:07 am
My local pastor/church believes that those in the O.T. were not born again/spirit filled and Dake believed they were.
I'ld stick with your local pastor on this one.
Men couldn't be reborn before Jesus allowed us to partake in His death, burial, and resurrection as new creatures.
I thank God for this aspect of water baptism in Jesus' name.
This morning I was reading in Galatians 3:19 that the law was added because of transgressions till the seed should come who was Christ.
Why did those in the O.T. before Christ need a law because of transgression if they were born again/spirit filled and those in the N.T. do not?
From Rom 7:13 we see..."But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful."
The law made it clear that those things counted as sinful were VERY sinful/wicked/evil, because God declared it.
And again, they had not been reborn.
You make it seem that those in the O.T. were so wicked that they had no possible way of obeying God's commands because they were wicked to the core. Why did God allow them to be punished time and time again if they had no ability to obey Him. That seems unjust to me.

David wrote in Psalms 119:11 "Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee." How could one that is so wicked do that?



TruthSeeker
Wrestle Not Against Flesh and Blood
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:50 am

Re: Purpose of the law

Post by TruthSeeker » Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:52 am

luchnia wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:18 pm
TruthSeeker wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:30 pm
luchnia wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:56 pm
TruthSeeker wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:07 am
My local pastor/church believes that those in the O.T. were not born again/spirit filled and Dake believed they were.
This morning I was reading in Galatians 3:19 that the law was added because of transgressions till the seed should come who was Christ.
Why did those in the O.T. before Christ need a law because of transgression if they were born again/spirit filled and those in the N.T. do not?
Good post.

Why would being born again exempt one from the law and why wouldn't OT believers not be born of the Spirit as they are today? There is really nothing different in that aspect whether the old law is enforced or not. Jesus said that if a man not be born of the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. Jesus did not isolate that statement to a certain time frame.

I am not sure I fully understand the point, yet it may be that using the old (mosaic) law in this context is only problematic to understanding the born again experience in the old testament times.
Galatians 3:8-9 says that the gospel was preached to Abraham and those that believe are blessed with him. So if those in the O.T. that believed the gospel had righteousness imputed to them, what was the purpose of the law for them compared to us now? For in 1 Tim 1:9 it says the law is not made for the righteous. Was the law in the O.T. just for those who did not believe the gospel (Heb. 4:2) or were they not made righteous/born again like we are now although Dake believed they were?
Well as you put it earlier post, the law was for transgressors. I do believe much as Dake did on this issue. I am glad you put the note in about Abraham, because as it reminds me that Abraham was a long time before the mosaic law.
Just wandering why if the law is not made for a righteous man (1 Tim. 1:9) why did God demand they obey the law in the O.T. if they were already born again and made righteous?



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