Dake Bible Discussion BoardDis-fellowship

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Grandfather
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Dis-fellowship

Post by Grandfather » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:30 pm

Here are two passages from 1 Cor 5 (ESV)

"When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. ...
Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”


1 - Implied here, and elsewhere in the NT, is the principle of church discipline to remove a "brother" who is living in unrepentant sin and is making no effort towards repentance and freedom from that sin.
If you agree, then continue to point 2. If you disagree with the principle, please state why. If you disagree with the way I worded the statement, but not the principle itself, then don't pick a fight, simply move on.

2 - Is removing a "brother" an effective means of chastening and hopefully moving them to repent? Why or Why not?

3 - For the purpose of discussion, it is to be assumed that removing an unrepentant "brother" who shows no desire or inclination to repent is a good thing for the local church body. However, if you disagree, I would like to hear your reasoning.

4 - Have you been a part of a local church body where this has been done? If so, was it effective in bringing the "brother" back and restoring fellowship within the local church? Can you explain why, or why not?



Hill Top
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Re: Dis-fellowship

Post by Hill Top » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:35 pm

Grandfather wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:30 pm
2 - Is removing a "brother" an effective means of chastening and hopefully moving them to repent? Why or Why not?
If the situation has gone on so long that this is the only recourse, a true "turn from" sin is unlikely.
Dis-fellowship is more for the protection of the surviving church members.
3 - For the purpose of discussion, it is to be assumed that removing an unrepentant "brother" who shows no desire or inclination to repent is a good thing for the local church body.
.
Usually a sinner just disappears without any fanfare: they don't want to be exposed for who they really are.
4 - Have you been a part of a local church body where this has been done? If so, was it effective in bringing the "brother" back and restoring fellowship within the local church? Can you explain why, or why not?
I've never seen this done.
I have seen sinners admit to sin and "say" they repent and want to start a life of faith to God...and then fail again, and leave for good.
Others have remained faithful after repentance.



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luchnia
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Re: Dis-fellowship

Post by luchnia » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:15 am

Grandfather wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:30 pm
4 - Have you been a part of a local church body where this has been done? If so, was it effective in bringing the "brother" back and restoring fellowship within the local church? Can you explain why, or why not?
The churches that I have been involved with simple allow it and it is repulsive. I have never once saw it addressed and I knew that they were fully aware that it was going on. I know of one instance where it was like the two wore a sign saying, we are in adultery. I cannot help but think of how these dirty churches today operate in the name of God. Many are full of adultery and all sorts of evil doings and yet they welcome it in like the plague.

They allow gays, lesbians, adultery, multitudes of lies, and there are many sexual misconducts and yet they have the audacity to preach. They need repentance! Simple observations shows what allowing evil does to those in those gatherings that allow it. They become desensitized to God's light and some go as far as calling evil good and good evil. They are ignorant to the damage they are doing.

Here is what is even more amazing. If you stand up and speak against the filth, you more than likely will be thrown out and banned as evil. You may be tagged as satan, self-righteous, and so on. Have you ever been called a child of satan for calling evil out? They hide behind the banter of "we welcome sinners here." What? Where do sinners fit in the gathering of the saints in the body of Christ?

If the Holy Spirit did not tolerate it then, why do men tolerate it now? Men that allow such should hang their head in shame and beg God to grant them strength and guidance to stand against such evil and then get off their butts and do something about it. My bet is that it will get worse and worse since they don't truly follow God's word anyway.


Word up!

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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: Dis-fellowship

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:57 pm

Grandfather wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:30 pm
Here are two passages from 1 Cor 5 (ESV)

"When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. ...
Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”


1 - Implied here, and elsewhere in the NT, is the principle of church discipline to remove a "brother" who is living in unrepentant sin and is making no effort towards repentance and freedom from that sin.
If you agree, then continue to point 2. If you disagree with the principle, please state why. If you disagree with the way I worded the statement, but not the principle itself, then don't pick a fight, simply move on.

2 - Is removing a "brother" an effective means of chastening and hopefully moving them to repent? Why or Why not?
I think it depends upon how much they value the church as a community.




Grandfather wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:30 pm
3 - For the purpose of discussion, it is to be assumed that removing an unrepentant "brother" who shows no desire or inclination to repent is a good thing for the local church body. However, if you disagree, I would like to hear your reasoning.
I agree.





Grandfather wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:30 pm
4 - Have you been a part of a local church body where this has been done? If so, was it effective in bringing the "brother" back and restoring fellowship within the local church? Can you explain why, or why not?
Yes, I have been part of a local church where this has been done. No, it wasn't effective in the case I am thinking of. The family in question did great damage to the local church and and came to an understanding that it was best if the family not return as there was no intent of repentance on the part of the family in question.

In other cases that I am aware of in churches that I do not locally attend, such discipline has resulted in the folks that were kicked out going and starting their own churches. However, these cases had to do with supposed heresy on the part of the members that were kicked out.


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"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." — 2 CORINTHIANS 5:17

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luchnia
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Re: Dis-fellowship

Post by luchnia » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:27 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:57 pm
In other cases that I am aware of in churches that I do not locally attend, such discipline has resulted in the folks that were kicked out going and starting their own churches. However, these cases had to do with supposed heresy on the part of the members that were kicked out.
Reading this, I could not help but to think about how so many area churches started and that was by disagreements between two instrumental parties or individuals. I know of one case when a guy built, get this, no less than three churches in a period of about five years because he would start a church with someone then later they would get into battle then he would move on and build another. Even to this day all three are still going.

The are a lot of churches in my area and some don't have a handful of people in them. A few years ago another guy decided to start a church in my area and he has drawn exceptional crowds. Over time it may change though. Never ceases to amaze me. Disagreement is usually the cause that another church needs to be built when most of them are basically empty. Men will say God told them to do it and with careful observation one can clearly see that was not the case.


Word up!

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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: Dis-fellowship

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:14 pm

Off Topic
This causes me to wonder just who is biblically qualified to start a church?


KNOW YOU'RE KNEW
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." — 2 CORINTHIANS 5:17

Hill Top
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Re: Dis-fellowship

Post by Hill Top » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:27 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:14 pm
Off Topic
This causes me to wonder just who is biblically qualified to start a church?
"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." (Matt 18:20)
A church needs a pastor/bishop, so leadership is essential.
A man who fulfills the requirements listed in 1 Tim 3:2-7 should be qualified to lead.



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luchnia
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Re: Dis-fellowship

Post by luchnia » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:02 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:14 pm
Off Topic
This causes me to wonder just who is biblically qualified to start a church?
One thing is for sure, many that were started seem amiss from the biblical foundation of a gathering of the called out body of believers.


Word up!

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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: Dis-fellowship

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:16 pm

In related news... A Chicago pastor tried not to "Dis-fellowship" an abomination... Rather, he just asked that the abomination not come to church dressed like a member of the opposite sex.

Pastor Under Fire for Booting Male Member Who Dressed Like a Woman for Church Service

And, would you believe that people are upset?

Deuteronomy 22:5 King James Version
The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.


KNOW YOU'RE KNEW
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." — 2 CORINTHIANS 5:17

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Ironman
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Re: Dis-fellowship

Post by Ironman » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:50 pm

I cannot wait for Jesus to return to put down all this open rebellion against His Word.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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