Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Eternally secure and thus cannot lose their salvation

[branham1965]

Would you say that your Church You called it the Church by Christ Jesus is the only saved Church???

Here in Virginia there is little to no power in the churches, especially when it comes to healing. If there is power, you don't hear of it being manifested in healing. Of course a topic for another thread.

When you say "churches", do you mean those who have forsaken sin and come to the light?
Or do you mean the false churches that accommodate sin?

[luchnia]

Here in Virginia there is little to no power in the churches, especially when it comes to healing. If there is power, you don't hear of it being manifested in healing. Of course a topic for another thread.

When you say "churches", do you mean those who have forsaken sin and come to the light?
Or do you mean the false churches that accommodate sin?

I don't paint the term exactly in that light. There are folks in different levels of their walk with God. There is ignorance and not all understand all light. To paint a broad stroke across this doesn't fully work in my way of thinking, yet I am guilty of doing this. When I use the small "c" church it is generally a combination of people meeting in the best way they know how. After all, they are just meeting together. They have not received light in all areas.

It is my thought that in time though as that light increases they will be burdened to move out from under ignorance and will learn the knowledge of the Lord (as long as they continue in Him) and will seek out the Body of Christ because that longing for holiness will be pressing within them. Those that stay in dead dry powerless gatherings are squelching their very life force.

[luchnia]

So then by your understanding of Hebrews chapter six, you would say that Peter, Moses, Abraham, David, and many others were never saved, nor did they get saved because they tasted the good word of God and were enlightened? To say that Peter was not enlightened would pose a serious challenge, but yet we know he fell away big time, denied the very One that he believed in, and even called down curses upon himself.

None of your list sinned in the NT.
I can't remember a "sin" committed by Abraham, but Moses and David had the OT "atonements" to cover their sins.
As did Peter...for denying Christ three times.
After the resurrection of Jesus from the dead, however, we are able to join with Christ in killing the old man and burying him...then being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life, in the Spirit instead of in the flesh.
Thank God for the gifts of repentance from sin, baptism in water, and the gift of the Holy Ghost; so we can continue on in the light !

Granted I will give you that. When did the new covenant begin? Wasn't it when the testator died? So then, you imply that no saint sinned, or was able to sin, after that time?

[Hill Top]

Would you say that your Church You called it "the Church by Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21)", is the only saved Church??

Salvation won't be assured for anyone till the final judgement.
I don't presume to know if any part of the body will be saved, or not, but if we "endure till the end", we will be found worthy of eternal life.
People who commit sin won't be saved.
They are traveling the wide path.

[Hill Top]

I don't paint the term exactly in that light. There are folks in different levels of their walk with God. There is ignorance and not all understand all light. To paint a broad stroke across this doesn't fully work in my way of thinking, yet I am guilty of doing this. When I use the small "c" church it is generally a combination of people meeting in the best way they know how. After all, they are just meeting together. They have not received light in all areas.

It is my thought that in time though as that light increases they will be burdened to move out from under ignorance and will learn the knowledge of the Lord (as long as they continue in Him) and will seek out the Body of Christ because that longing for holiness will be pressing within them. Those that stay in dead dry powerless gatherings are squelching their very life force.

Salvation isn't dependent on knowledge, it is dependent on the heart.
If the heart is right with God the repented man will seek and find all that is necessary for his salvation.
As long as he is aware of the facts of repentance from sin, water baptism and thereby the death of the old man, and the gift of the Holy Ghost, he will not stray back into darkness.
God puts no greater burden on a man than what the man can handle. (1 Cor 10:13)

[Hill Top]

Granted I will give you that. When did the new covenant begin? Wasn't it when the testator died? So then, you imply that no saint sinned, or was able to sin, after that time?

You are correct about the start of the NT.
To be labeled a saint in the NT, you must be sin-free.
Before Christ's death, burial, and resurrection, no man could kill his old man of the flesh and be reborn as Christ too was raised from the grave.

[branham1965]

Two schools effect people today.John Calvin and Jacob Arminius.

Calvinists used to teach that if you tried to find God they would tell you only if God predestined you could you be saved.

Today they teach OSAS.

Arminians also go to extremes Dad Hagin said.He taught we could lose our salvation but i think in a more sane reasonable way.
I loved Dad Hagin for being balanced.

Last night i re -read the Present Day Ministry of Jesus Christ by Kenneth E.Hagin.

He made some interesting points on this stuff.

[luchnia]

Two schools effect people today.John Calvin and Jacob Arminius.

I have heard those names mentioned often, mostly on forums, but I have never studied the two men and really could not tell you what they believe, so their beliefs have not affected me, but maybe they have affected many others. That I don't know.

I have heard people say Calvin started OSAS, but if you read the deception in the garden you can quickly see the origin of OSAS and Calvin's name is not once mentioned there and I think God left his name out for good reason.

Maybe many of the side-doctrines we battle come from these two, however I see two primary sources of all doctrine as related to God's word. Those from God and those from the evil deceiver.

If people are heavily affected by what these two men, Calvin and Arminius, believed, that is a perfect example of the mistake of aligning with men's beliefs instead of aligning with the Word of God.

[Hill Top]

I have heard those names mentioned often, mostly on forums, but I have never studied the two men and really could not tell you what they believe, so their beliefs have not affected me, but maybe they have affected many others. That I don't know.

I have heard people say Calvin started OSAS, but if you read the deception in the garden you can quickly see the origin of OSAS and Calvin's name is not once mentioned there and I think God left his name out for good reason.

Maybe many of the side-doctrines we battle come from these two, however I see two primary sources of all doctrine as related to God's word. Those from God and those from the evil deceiver.

If people are heavily affected by what these two men, Calvin and Arminius, believed, that is a perfect example of the mistake of aligning with men's beliefs instead of aligning with the Word of God.

Amen !
Find out what they teach relative to freedom from sin...then make your judgement of their source of inspiration.

[luchnia]

Salvation won't be assured for anyone till the final judgement.

This sort of flies in the face of once saved always saved, because if a man is saved and cannot fall away, then his salvation is assured and would not need final judgment. Of course there are different judgments, yet what would final judgement do for an already saved person, except for rewards?

I suppose this "final judgment" is more like final realization of whether a man is righteous or not. When he turns those last pages of his life, he will one day assuredly find out whether he is saved.

Often when death faces a man his words become very different than they were when death did not appear so near. I have seen some heart wrenching moments when one would cry out to God for help for hours during their last breaths.