Dake Bible Discussion BoardJonah

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Hill Top
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Re: Jonah

Post by Hill Top » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:36 pm

luchnia wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:21 pm
I don't have a hard time believing that those born of God cannot commit sin. I fully believe that and don't disagree with it. When one chooses to sin and sins, they are NOT born of God. Those born of God do not commit sin as I have stated many times in the forum.
Good of you to make that clear.
Thanks.



Hill Top
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Re: Jonah

Post by Hill Top » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:49 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:12 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:28 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:06 pm
Please, explain James 5:19-20:
James 5:19-20 King James Version
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

How does one of the brethren become a sinner in need of having his soul saved from death?
Since when are the 'unconverted' our brothers?
They are born from different seed !
Why would the apostle call one that could err from the truth and be converted a brother if such were not possible?
Would you have preferred "the apostle" to refer to the sinner as "a born of the devil son of satan"?
The premise of Christianity is the redemption of all men, and being nice to such helps in the persuasion of the lost.
, clearly says that a brother can err from the truth, be converted, and that such conversion can save that erring brother from death and hide many sins.
If you are quoting James 5:19-20, the "brethren" he mentions are those who should be trying to convert the sinner.
He isn't calling the sinner a brother.
Paul does the same thing in Galatians 6:1.
Sinners are not the Christian's brother, as they have different fathers.



TruthSeeker
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Re: Jonah

Post by TruthSeeker » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:25 am

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:40 pm
TruthSeeker wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:52 pm
luchnia wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:15 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:52 pm
macca wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:41 pm
Serpent seed. Rubbish.
William Branham believed in the Doctrine of the Serpent's Seed.
I think this is the bizarre teaching that Eve had sex with the serpent and somehow gave birth from it. Been many years ago, but I remember quite a number of folks going down that doctrinal road and it was taught quite a bit from pulpits. It has died down a lot over the years.
I had no clue that Macca was referring to natural offspring. No one had made mention of that prior to his statement, I thought he was referring to Satan having no spiritual offspring was rubbish. If he was referring to natural offspring that is wrong. Although angels did take themselves daughters of men and produced giants (Gen 6:3-4)
Yes, the teaching that Cain was the physical offspring of Eve and Satan has been around for quite a while. William Branham's doctrine of salvation practically hung upon whether or not one was descended from Cain's line. Peter Ruckman also taught a variation of the Serpent Seed doctrine. So did Arnold Murray.

This teaching is popular among some racists, who think it's possible to tell whether or not someone has some Serpent Seed in their ancestry by looking at them. Generally, the idea is that white folks with true blue eyes and true blonde hair are most likely purely descended from Able while those with degrees of variation from that are more than likely descended from Cain.

Some who believe that the White Anglo-Saxon people are the true Israelites hold to the Serpent Seed doctrine, as well.
Thank you for sharing that information. I was unaware of that doctrine. Now in the future when people use that phrase I'll have a better idea of what they are referring to.



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luchnia
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Re: Jonah

Post by luchnia » Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:31 pm

TruthSeeker wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:25 am
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:40 pm
TruthSeeker wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:52 pm
luchnia wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:15 pm
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:52 pm
macca wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:41 pm
Serpent seed. Rubbish.
William Branham believed in the Doctrine of the Serpent's Seed.
I think this is the bizarre teaching that Eve had sex with the serpent and somehow gave birth from it. Been many years ago, but I remember quite a number of folks going down that doctrinal road and it was taught quite a bit from pulpits. It has died down a lot over the years.
I had no clue that Macca was referring to natural offspring. No one had made mention of that prior to his statement, I thought he was referring to Satan having no spiritual offspring was rubbish. If he was referring to natural offspring that is wrong. Although angels did take themselves daughters of men and produced giants (Gen 6:3-4)
Yes, the teaching that Cain was the physical offspring of Eve and Satan has been around for quite a while. William Branham's doctrine of salvation practically hung upon whether or not one was descended from Cain's line. Peter Ruckman also taught a variation of the Serpent Seed doctrine. So did Arnold Murray.

This teaching is popular among some racists, who think it's possible to tell whether or not someone has some Serpent Seed in their ancestry by looking at them. Generally, the idea is that white folks with true blue eyes and true blonde hair are most likely purely descended from Able while those with degrees of variation from that are more than likely descended from Cain.

Some who believe that the White Anglo-Saxon people are the true Israelites hold to the Serpent Seed doctrine, as well.
Thank you for sharing that information. I was unaware of that doctrine. Now in the future when people use that phrase I'll have a better idea of what they are referring to.
Trying to reach back in my memory here, but I agree that Arnold Murray of Shepard's chapel was a proponent of serpent seed and the Kenites (cain's descendants) race doctrines. He was probably one of its strongest advocates. He often had some great points worthy of study, but you sure had to rake some chaff to the side or you would be on a downhill pull to the bottom.


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Hill Top
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Re: Jonah

Post by Hill Top » Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:41 pm

luchnia wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:31 pm
Trying to reach back in my memory here, but I agree that Arnold Murray of Shepard's chapel was a proponent of serpent seed and the Kenites (cain's descendants) race doctrines. He was probably one of its strongest advocates.
He often had some great points worthy of study, but you sure had to rake some chaff to the side or you would be on a downhill pull to the bottom.
I prefer to dump the entire teachings of the devilish into the trash instead of regarding any of their work as "great points".
A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
That is why I so despise the newer "translations" of the bible.
You have to work so hard to ignore the wickedness they try to sneak into print.



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luchnia
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Re: Jonah

Post by luchnia » Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:46 pm

Hill Top wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:36 pm
luchnia wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:21 pm
I don't have a hard time believing that those born of God cannot commit sin. I fully believe that and don't disagree with it. When one chooses to sin and sins, they are NOT born of God. Those born of God do not commit sin as I have stated many times in the forum.
Good of you to make that clear.
Thanks.
I did not realize it wasn't clear. I have maintained that one born of God can fall away to sin, not that one born of God and has God's seed remaining commits sin. Where we differ is on the point that any saint can fall away. As I stated many did and many will again as it is written. Which you have stated that cannot happen.

To reiterate, when the saint falls away and chooses sin they no longer follow God. They yield and serve a different master. They conceive sin because they have been drawn away and give place to a different seed.


Word up!

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luchnia
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Re: Jonah

Post by luchnia » Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:51 pm

Hill Top wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:41 pm
luchnia wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:31 pm
Trying to reach back in my memory here, but I agree that Arnold Murray of Shepard's chapel was a proponent of serpent seed and the Kenites (cain's descendants) race doctrines. He was probably one of its strongest advocates.
He often had some great points worthy of study, but you sure had to rake some chaff to the side or you would be on a downhill pull to the bottom.
I prefer to dump the entire teachings of the devilish into the trash instead of regarding any of their work as "great points".
A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
That is why I so despise the newer "translations" of the bible.
You have to work so hard to ignore the wickedness they try to sneak into print.
To a point, I certainly agree. Though I think that if one is mature and studied enough, they should be able to discern. I follow more along the philosophy of gleaning out the gold and throwing the chaff away. If one is naive and easily carried away then certainly they should not listen to anyone like Murray.


Word up!

Hill Top
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Re: Jonah

Post by Hill Top » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:12 pm

luchnia wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:46 pm
Hill Top wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:36 pm
luchnia wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:21 pm
I don't have a hard time believing that those born of God cannot commit sin. I fully believe that and don't disagree with it. When one chooses to sin and sins, they are NOT born of God. Those born of God do not commit sin as I have stated many times in the forum.
Good of you to make that clear.
Thanks.
I did not realize it wasn't clear. I have maintained that one born of God can fall away to sin, not that one born of God and has God's seed remaining commits sin. Where we differ is on the point that any saint can fall away. As I stated many did and many will again as it is written. Which you have stated that cannot happen.
To reiterate, when the saint falls away and chooses sin they no longer follow God. They yield and serve a different master. They conceive sin because they have been drawn away and give place to a different seed.
Where we differ is...I think that those born of God's seed can't commit sin and you think they can quit being born of God and then will commit sin.
Doesn't your POV negate the fact that the seed of God is in them?
I don't believe a man can be reborn (of God's seed), then reborn again as a child of the devil.



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luchnia
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Re: Jonah

Post by luchnia » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:01 am

Hill Top wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:12 pm
luchnia wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:46 pm
Doesn't your POV negate the fact that the seed of God is in them?
I don't believe a man can be reborn (of God's seed), then reborn again as a child of the devil.
From a disagreement standpoint, this is not a bad place to disagree. I understand both sides of this issue, yet understanding how the seed of God works in the individual by his or her will shines the greatest light on this and for me, reconciles the scriptures that substantiate my POV.

If we had no scriptures that indicate that saints could, and do, and will fall away, my entire understanding would change. I know that without scripture to support my POV then I would have nothing but speculation and conjecture and nothing firm to stand on. My belief is that Scripture supports my POV.

How familiar are you with the parable of the sower? I think with your POV you don't believe God's seed can be removed, but I would ask can the seed be withered away, choked, and stolen from a child of God? Can the thief catch away that which is sown in the heart as Jesus taught it could?

Does every saint maintain perfect soil before God so that the seed bears fruit as it should - 30, 60, and 100 fold? Consider how the seed of God can be completely destroyed within an individual's heart where the heart becomes full of poison to the point of rejecting God. This is the basis by which men stand or fall throughout time and we have examples in God's word of exactly that.


Word up!

Hill Top
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Re: Jonah

Post by Hill Top » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:53 pm

luchnia wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:01 am
From a disagreement standpoint, this is not a bad place to disagree. I understand both sides of this issue, yet understanding how the seed of God works in the individual by his or her will shines the greatest light on this and for me, reconciles the scriptures that substantiate my POV.

If we had no scriptures that indicate that saints could, and do, and will fall away, my entire understanding would change. I know that without scripture to support my POV then I would have nothing but speculation and conjecture and nothing firm to stand on. My belief is that Scripture supports my POV.

How familiar are you with the parable of the sower? I think with your POV you don't believe God's seed can be removed, but I would ask can the seed be withered away, choked, and stolen from a child of God? Can the thief catch away that which is sown in the heart as Jesus taught it could?

Does every saint maintain perfect soil before God so that the seed bears fruit as it should - 30, 60, and 100 fold? Consider how the seed of God can be completely destroyed within an individual's heart where the heart becomes full of poison to the point of rejecting God. This is the basis by which men stand or fall throughout time and we have examples in God's word of exactly that.
Your POV rejects the fact that those with God's seed in them cannot commit sin.
Fig trees cannot bear grapes.
Your POV says fig trees can change of their own accord and start to bear grapes.
That's not what Jesus taught.

Those deemed to "fall away" were posers from the onset of their presumed conversion.
Because they did not have the seed of God in them, they were able to commit sin.



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