I think I see your view on this, yet to me humankind are different in the aspect that each person, no matter whom they are born from are individually accountable and that has to take place at some point in time. I am reminded of when Paul mentioned knowing sin.Spiritblade Disciple wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:09 pmI disagree.luchnia wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:03 pmMy question at this point would be, because one is born in depravity they would have to come to a point to choose to sin at which time they become a sinner, correct?Spiritblade Disciple wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:43 pm
No, I do not believe that one has to choose depravity. A person does depraved things because they are depraved. They do the will of their father. Sinners sin because they are sinners. Some are so bad that God gives them over to a reprobate mind to do things they would never consider doing on their own.
In my view an infant is unable to choose to sin since they haven't even learned to talk, walk, or do anything really. They have not developed a moral compass in their spirit. I understand sin as missing the moral mark and from my understanding of children they have to come to a place that they can sin. I think this coincides with what Jesus said about the children.
What are your thoughts?
They are a sinner because they are born in depravity, even if they have not committed personal sins. The commission of such sins at a later time only proves that they are such. It's like an apple tree producing apples. From a seed, it is destined to do so. It has no choice in the matter. It is an apple tree, even if it doesn't live long enough to produce a single apple.
To have any chance at producing a different kind of fruit, it would have to be regenerated (that is, genetically re-engineered), becoming a totally different type of tree. Similar to how when a person is saved, they become a new creature.
Trees are known by their fruit and they do not produce fruit that is contrary to their nature.
It would seem being a sinner would require sinning. Sin requires action (conception in the heart) according to James chapter one. An infant would have to be drawn away of their own lust, enticed, and sin would have to be birthed in the heart before a baby could sin. To me the math does not add up them being a sinner without committing sin. Born in depravity or sin is one thing, born depraved or sinning is another entirely. I deem them completely different states.