Dake Bible Discussion BoardBorn Again in the O.T.

General Discussion Forum devoted to the study of God's Word in Honor of Finis J. Dake.
TruthSeeker
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Born Again in the O.T.

Post by TruthSeeker »

I appreciate and have been blessed by the writings of Rev. Dake. I have his annotated bible and God's Plan For Man. His teachings on those being born again in the O.T. goes against what I have been taught and learned in my walk with the Lord. I've read his material on the subject and agree with his scriptures and explanations. However, there are a couple of scriptures that don't seem to agree with the idea of those in the O.T. being born again.

Jeremiah 31:33-34 and then repeated in Hebrews 8:10-12

"For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts;..." v.10 "..."and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more." v.12 NKJV

This seems to be a distinct difference between old and new testament people.

And in Ezekiel 36:26 the Lord says He will give them(in the future) a new heart and a new spirit as well.

And in John 20:22 after Jesus' resurrection and before His ascension He breathed on them(the apostles) to receive the Holy Spirit. I have been taught this is when the apostles were truly born again. Up to this point all believers in the coming Messiah basically were given salvation on credit but not truly born again with a new spirit until Jesus (the first fruits of the resurrection) was raised from the dead.

Any clarification on these particular scriptures would be appreciated. I have read Dake's explanations on the subject so please address this issue with the above scriptures I am specifically wondering about.

Thanks!!



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branham1965
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Re: Born Again in the O.T.

Post by branham1965 »

That is how i learned it TruthSeeker.:angel:



Nice to see you posting.
TruthSeeker wrote:I appreciate and have been blessed by the writings of Rev. Dake. I have his annotated bible and God's Plan For Man. His teachings on those being born again in the O.T. goes against what I have been taught and learned in my walk with the Lord. I've read his material on the subject and agree with his scriptures and explanations. However, there are a couple of scriptures that don't seem to agree with the idea of those in the O.T. being born again.

Jeremiah 31:33-34 and then repeated in Hebrews 8:10-12

"For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts;..." v.10 "..."and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more." v.12 NKJV

This seems to be a distinct difference between old and new testament people.

And in Ezekiel 36:26 the Lord says He will give them(in the future) a new heart and a new spirit as well.

And in John 20:22 after Jesus' resurrection and before His ascension He breathed on them(the apostles) to receive the Holy Spirit. I have been taught this is when the apostles were truly born again. Up to this point all believers in the coming Messiah basically were given salvation on credit but not truly born again with a new spirit until Jesus (the first fruits of the resurrection) was raised from the dead.

Any clarification on these particular scriptures would be appreciated. I have read Dake's explanations on the subject so please address this issue with the above scriptures I am specifically wondering about.

Thanks!!



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branham1965
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Re: Born Again in the O.T.

Post by branham1965 »

The New Birth is exclusive to the New Covenant.

It took Calvary and an Empty Tomb for the New and Better Covenant to be instituted.

cf Hebrews 9 and 10.



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Re: Born Again in the O.T.

Post by TruthSeeker »

branham1965 wrote:The New Birth is exclusive to the New Covenant.

It took Calvary and an Empty Tomb for the New and Better Covenant to be instituted.

cf Hebrews 9 and 10.
So that means that nobody before this time was born again and that the 12, 72, and others did miracles and cast out devils without being born again?



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luchnia
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Re: Born Again in the O.T.

Post by luchnia »

branham1965 wrote:The New Birth is exclusive to the New Covenant.

It took Calvary and an Empty Tomb for the New and Better Covenant to be instituted.

cf Hebrews 9 and 10.
The New Covenant is definitely the better covenant, however if the new birth is exclusive to the NT, then that would mean all the people that have gone on in the OT are perishing in eternal torments and were not born again. Are you implying that salvation existed in the OT without being born from above, and if so please explain that view as that would be interesting.

Something is missing with this view because that would mean Abraham, Noah, Elijah, Enoch, Jacob, Joshua, John the baptist, and so on were not born again and are in torments forever.

We know the born again were in the paradise section of the underworld because Jesus took them up when He ascended. What about the rich man and the beggar Lazarus? Was that not so? What am I missing here?


Word up!

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branham1965
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Re: Born Again in the O.T.

Post by branham1965 »

I understand this as the Old Testament believers looked forward to Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 11 tells of the Hall of Faith "And these all having obtained a good report through faith ,received not the promise.
God have have provided some better thing for us ,that they without us should not be made perfect".Hebrews 11:39-40.

Reverend Dake shows from the Bible that these Old Testament saints were forgiven of sins and were healed and some were filled with the Spirit etc.

This is a great study. +jesussign

luchnia wrote:
branham1965 wrote:The New Birth is exclusive to the New Covenant.

It took Calvary and an Empty Tomb for the New and Better Covenant to be instituted.

cf Hebrews 9 and 10.
The New Covenant is definitely the better covenant, however if the new birth is exclusive to the NT, then that would mean all the people that have gone on in the OT are perishing in eternal torments and were not born again. Are you implying that salvation existed in the OT without being born from above, and if so please explain that view as that would be interesting.

Something is missing with this view because that would mean Abraham, Noah, Elijah, Enoch, Jacob, Joshua, John the baptist, and so on were not born again and are in torments forever.

We know the born again were in the paradise section of the underworld because Jesus took them up when He ascended. What about the rich man and the beggar Lazarus? Was that not so? What am I missing here?



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branham1965
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Re: Born Again in the O.T.

Post by branham1965 »

No i never said that.I hope i did not give that inference.

I think these men were all saved men including Judas Iscariot until he fell away.

I think Reverend Dake makes a strong Bible case for people being saved and forgiven of sins in both Testaments.

I like a little mini book Reverend Kenneh E.Hagin wrote on this subject entitled The New Birth.
TruthSeeker wrote:
branham1965 wrote:The New Birth is exclusive to the New Covenant.

It took Calvary and an Empty Tomb for the New and Better Covenant to be instituted.

cf Hebrews 9 and 10.
So that means that nobody before this time was born again and that the 12, 72, and others did miracles and cast out devils without being born again?



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Re: Born Again in the O.T.

Post by TruthSeeker »

[quote="branham1965"]No i never said that.I hope i did not give that inference.

I think these men were all saved men including Judas Iscariot until he fell away.

I think Reverend Dake makes a strong Bible case for people being saved and forgiven of sins in both Testaments
.

I like a little mini book Reverend Kenneh E.Hagin wrote on this subject entitled The New Birth.

Thanks for clarifying your position. From my understanding Rev. Hagin did not believe that those in the O.T. were born again but that the Holy Spirit came on the prophet, king, and priest only in O.T. This was the stance of the 2 pastors I've had in the past that graduated from Rhema.

If you believe all these people in the O.T. were born again, made a new creation, and filled with the Holy Spirit would you (or anyone else) please interpret the scriptures from my first post. Which are:

Ezek. 26:36
Heb. 8:10-12
John 20:22



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branham1965
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Re: Born Again in the O.T.

Post by branham1965 »

I would say that i agree with Dad Hagin on this.Though i am not opposed ever to Reverend Finis Jennings Dake.

Reverend Dake rebuked us for being too inquisitive about things.Please see question and answers on youtube.

I think the lesson would be to be born again and behave oneself and live for Christ and stay in Him.

And we know the Old Testaments Saints were saved cf Ephesians 4:7-11.
TruthSeeker wrote:
branham1965 wrote:No i never said that.I hope i did not give that inference.

I think these men were all saved men including Judas Iscariot until he fell away.

I think Reverend Dake makes a strong Bible case for people being saved and forgiven of sins in both Testaments
.

I like a little mini book Reverend Kenneh E.Hagin wrote on this subject entitled The New Birth.

Thanks for clarifying your position. From my understanding Rev. Hagin did not believe that those in the O.T. were born again but that the Holy Spirit came on the prophet, king, and priest only in O.T. This was the stance of the 2 pastors I've had in the past that graduated from Rhema.

If you believe all these people in the O.T. were born again, made a new creation, and filled with the Holy Spirit would you (or anyone else) please interpret the scriptures from my first post. Which are:

Ezek. 26:36
Heb. 8:10-12
John 20:22



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Re: Born Again in the O.T.

Post by TruthSeeker »

branham1965 wrote:I would say that i agree with Dad Hagin on this.Though i am not opposed ever to Reverend Finis Jennings
Dake.
Reverend Dake rebuked us for being too inquisitive about things.
Your posts through this thread have been confusing and contradictory.

If Reverend Dake stated that we are not to be too inquisitive about things and you believe that, that is dangerous. Are we suppose to believe someone just because they said it? How much or what part of the Word are we suppose to rightly divide and what parts don't we have to? Not sure what the purpose of this forum is.

If someone who believes with Dake on O.T. people were born again and can interpret those 3 scriptures I mentioned, that is all I'm asking! And if no one can we can just leave it.

Thanks!



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