Dake Bible Discussion BoardWere Jesus and John the Baptist related, cousins?

General Discussion Forum devoted to the study of God's Word in Honor of Finis J. Dake.
User avatar
Ironman
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 2140
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:29 pm

Were Jesus and John the Baptist related, cousins?

Post by Ironman »

Were Jesus and John the Baptist related? - cousins?

Since Levi and Judah were brothers, all their respective descendants were cousins. In Luke 1:36 (KJV) Elizabeth is called Mary’s cousin. If she and Elizabeth were cousins, then Jesus and John would have been cousins as well.
Marriage between the tribes was only forbidden in cases where tribal inheritance would be jeopardized. (Numbers 36:6-9).

Any Comments!

Haz.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

User avatar
branham1965
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 4395
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:18 am

Re: Were Jesus and John the Baptist related, cousins?

Post by branham1965 »

Howdy Haz, :smilecolros:

i was taught from a youngster that they were cousins.


there will never be cousins like The Lord Jesus Christ

and John the Baptist.



User avatar
Ironman
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 2140
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:29 pm

Re: Were Jesus and John the Baptist related, cousins?

Post by Ironman »

branham1965 wrote:Howdy Haz, :smilecolros:

i was taught from a youngster that they were cousins.


there will never be cousins like The Lord Jesus Christ

and John the Baptist.
Thanks billy, my wife asked me this today and I have to be truthful, I have never thought about this question before. Silly me? +goofy


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

titus213
He that Believeth Not Shall Be Damned
Posts: 781
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:45 pm

Re: Were Jesus and John the Baptist related, cousins?

Post by titus213 »

This is a good test case of a question brought up in another thread. Where do we draw the line at what we consider to be false teaching?

In the Dake Bible notes he calls attention to the fact that the Greek word used in Luke 1:36 does not mean "cousin" in the sense we use it, but countryman or kinsman. That's true. There is a different word in Greek for "cousin." This is why many Bible translations translate the word as "relative."

Obviously, Mary either was an actual cousin to Elizabeth, or she wasn't. Are those who say she absolutely was a cousin false teachers? If not, is Dake a false teacher for suggesting she was not?

Is this question a "weightier matter" even worthy of labeling those on one side or the other "false teachers?"
Ironman wrote:Were Jesus and John the Baptist related? - cousins?

Since Levi and Judah were brothers, all their respective descendants were cousins. In Luke 1:36 (KJV) Elizabeth is called Mary’s cousin. If she and Elizabeth were cousins, then Jesus and John would have been cousins as well.
Marriage between the tribes was only forbidden in cases where tribal inheritance would be jeopardized. (Numbers 36:6-9).

Any Comments!

Haz.




User avatar
luchnia
The Wicked Worketh a Deceitful Work: but to Him that Soweth Righteousness shall be a Sure Reward
Posts: 1690
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:01 am

Re: Were Jesus and John the Baptist related, cousins?

Post by luchnia »

titus213 wrote:This is a good test case of a question brought up in another thread. Where do we draw the line at what we consider to be false teaching?

In the Dake Bible notes he calls attention to the fact that the Greek word used in Luke 1:36 does not mean "cousin" in the sense we use it, but countryman or kinsman. That's true. There is a different word in Greek for "cousin." This is why many Bible translations translate the word as "relative."

Obviously, Mary either was an actual cousin to Elizabeth, or she wasn't. Are those who say she absolutely was a cousin false teachers? If not, is Dake a false teacher for suggesting she was not?

Is this question a "weightier matter" even worthy of labeling those on one side or the other "false teachers?"
Ironman wrote:Were Jesus and John the Baptist related? - cousins?

Since Levi and Judah were brothers, all their respective descendants were cousins. In Luke 1:36 (KJV) Elizabeth is called Mary’s cousin. If she and Elizabeth were cousins, then Jesus and John would have been cousins as well.
Marriage between the tribes was only forbidden in cases where tribal inheritance would be jeopardized. (Numbers 36:6-9).

Any Comments!

Haz.
Good thought provoking comments. I would imagine this is not a weightier matter, but certainly another learning opportunity so we are not ignorant. Many of our words have slightly different meanings today.

I would rarely, if at all, consider my countrymen my cousins, yet I can see how they would be my cousins. Kind of reminds you of the term brethren or like Paul was Timothy's father in a sense.

I would think that those that say Mary was absolutely a cousin are just ignorant of this information.


Word up!

Spiritblade Disciple
Moderator
Posts: 2449
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:27 pm

Re: Were Jesus and John the Baptist related, cousins?

Post by Spiritblade Disciple »

Is there any question about how close Mary and Elizabeth were? They seem to have been closer than just nationality? After all, Mary didn't have to ask the angel who Elizabeth was.

Is it not possible that Elizabeth was really her cousin and that Elizabeth had just married into the priestly tribe?



User avatar
branham1965
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 4395
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:18 am

Re: Were Jesus and John the Baptist related, cousins?

Post by branham1965 »

Haz :angel: simply brought this up.we discussed it.i do not know Greek.i don't pretend to and do not want to learn it.
the NASB says relatives , ASV 1901 says kinswoman...

Macarthur says "it seems most reasonable to regard the genealogy of Luke 3:23-28 as Mary's...this would make her a direct descendant of David.yet Elizabeth was a direct descendant of Aaron.therefore Mary must have been related to Elizabeth through her mother who would have been of Aaronic descent.thus Mary was a descendant of David through her father....Macarthur study Bible notes Luke 1.
titus213 wrote:This is a good test case of a question brought up in another thread. Where do we draw the line at what we consider to be false teaching?

In the Dake Bible notes he calls attention to the fact that the Greek word used in Luke 1:36 does not mean "cousin" in the sense we use it, but countryman or kinsman. That's true. There is a different word in Greek for "cousin." This is why many Bible translations translate the word as "relative."

Obviously, Mary either was an actual cousin to Elizabeth, or she wasn't. Are those who say she absolutely was a cousin false teachers? If not, is Dake a false teacher for suggesting she was not?

Is this question a "weightier matter" even worthy of labeling those on one side or the other "false teachers?"
Ironman wrote:Were Jesus and John the Baptist related? - cousins?

Since Levi and Judah were brothers, all their respective descendants were cousins. In Luke 1:36 (KJV) Elizabeth is called Mary’s cousin. If she and Elizabeth were cousins, then Jesus and John would have been cousins as well.
Marriage between the tribes was only forbidden in cases where tribal inheritance would be jeopardized. (Numbers 36:6-9).

Any Comments!

Haz.
Last edited by branham1965 on Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.



User avatar
branham1965
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 4395
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:18 am

Re: Were Jesus and John the Baptist related, cousins?

Post by branham1965 »

i agree Roger.:angel: :angel:

spot on :scrambleup:

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:Is there any question about how close Mary and Elizabeth were? They seem to have been closer than just nationality? After all, Mary didn't have to ask the angel who Elizabeth was.

Is it not possible that Elizabeth was really her cousin and that Elizabeth had just married into the priestly tribe?



User avatar
Doc
Judges
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:22 pm

Re: Were Jesus and John the Baptist related, cousins?

Post by Doc »

The AMP says "relative", or "kinsman" but it's all translated from the Greek word "syngenes", and "genos" which appears to have a narrow meaning which strongly (no pun) as Strong's seems to indicate as well as Vine's. I think the indication at the very least seems to be that it's probably true that they were blood related, which does make Jesus and John blood related. "Genos" from where we get "genes", and genetic" from, should be considered. To be honest, I've never considered any other possibility. +wink +ummm

Greek Strong's Number: 4773
Greek Word: s???e???
Transliteration: syngenes
Phonetic Pronunciation:soong-ghen-ace'
Root: from <G4862> and <G1085>
Cross Reference: TDNT - 7:736,1097
Part of Speech: adj
Vine's Words: Cousin, Kin, Kinsfolk, Kinsman, Kinswoman


Usage Notes:

English Words used in KJV:
kinsman 7
cousin 2
kinsfolk 2
kin 1
[Total Count: 12]

from <G4862> (sun) and <G1085> (genos); a relative (by blood); by extension a fellow countryman :- cousin, kin (-sfolk, -sman).
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.



Post Reply