- Surely He Shall Deliver From the Snare of the Fowler
- Posts: 224
- Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:48 pm
You've just given the best differentiation between WOF and Faith teaching, I've ever seen. I prefer Reverend Dake and the Holy Bible.
Justaned wrote:Again this is a made up illustration, I never implied or in any asserted that it was quote. So why do you ask who said this?bibleman wrote:Hi Ed,Justaned wrote:branham1965 wrote:HE SOUNDS EXACTLY LIKE A REAL WOF TEACHER TO ME ED.Justaned wrote:bibleman wrote:Some have ignorantly said that Dake and Kenneth Hagin were not the same in their teachings.
Now of course they were not the same in every single aspect of their teachings, but on observation one can readily see that they are very similar in their beliefs.
Here is a teaching that Dake put into God's Plan for Man.
Here is Brother Hagin teaching on the exact same subject: http://www.ministryhelps.com/what-to-do ... p-720.htmlNecessary Steps to Follow When Faith Seems Weak and Victory Seems Lost
1. Recognize the source of the opposition as being of Satan.
2. Be sure that the promises of God cover the thing asked for.
3. Be sure that you are not living in open or secret sin.
4. Be sure that no doubt or unbelief is permitted in the life concerning the promises.
5. Sincerely desire the benefit that you ask of God.
6. Ask of God in faith, nothing wavering, believing that what is asked is yours.
7. Do not tolerate for one single moment a thought to the contrary.
8. Count the thing done that you have asked.
9. Give glory to God even before you receive what you have asked.
10. Act as if you have received what you have asked.
Remember the moment that you doubt, or wonder why God has not answered, or look around for some reason why He did not hear your prayer or begin to accept the delay in the answer as the will of God for you not to have what you have asked, you are defeated because you failed to hold firm in unwavering faith in God for the answer. Never under any circumstance question the will of God in the matter of answered prayer.
If He has promised that you can have whatsoever you ask if you do not doubt, then do not for a moment think that it may be God's will to hold from you that which He has promised and which you have asked for in faith.
It is always God's will for you to ask and get what you will; so do not make the mistake that multiplied thousands are making in always wondering and wavering concerning the will of God in anything that is promised by God.
If you will faithfully follow the above listed steps and settle on what is God's will according to His Word and hold to it through all opposition, you cannot fail to get what you want.
In the final analysis the answer to your prayer depends upon you more than it does upon God, for the simple reason that God does not fail or change and there is no possible failure on His part. The only failure that is possible is on your part. Man is so used to living by feelings instead of faith and so used to being swayed by circumstances instead of counting those things that be not as though they were, that he does not always doggedly hold to the practice of the necessary steps in the answer to prayer. You must see to it that you do not fail, and then there cannot be a faint possibility of a failure.
Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 329-330.
Topics covered in the book include:
Recognise the source
Be sure the promises of God cover the things you ask for
Be sure you are not living in sin
Be sure no doubt or unbelief is permitted in your life
Sincerely desire the benefit
Ask God in faith nothing wavering
Do not tolerate a thought to the contrary
Count the thing done
Give glory to God
Act as though you have received
Wait I don't think anyone has said that Dake and Hagin were different in their teaching. I think what was said that Dake was not a Word of Faith teacher.
The 10 points you list are not defining points that distinguish WOF teaching from Christiand faith teaching.
And I think that is part of the problem. People really don't know what WOF is and what makes it different from Faith preaching and teaching. They assume because the Preachers says you must have faith that it is a good message. However that is not WOF. Word of Faith is the belief that you can speak things into and out of existence. I gave the car example. It has a dent but the dent isn't really there until you speak it into existence by saying my car has a dent.
If on the the other hand you declare your car to be perfect the dent will be gone.
Now that is a very very very simple illustration of what WOF teaches in a very carefully worded way. Most never pick up on it but it is there. Many times WOF preachers equate this power to God's power of speaking things like creation into existence. In effect elevating man to God's level but it is done so cleverly again most don't think it through to realize that is what is being said.
Above you said: " However that is not WOF. Word of Faith is the belief that you can speak things into and out of existence. I gave the car example. It has a dent but the dent isn't really there until you speak it into existence by saying my car has a dent.
If on the the other hand you declare your car to be perfect the dent will be gone. "
I have been WOF for over 30 years and have NEVER heard anyone in the WOF camp preach that.
If that is true then give the tape, the cd, the book, the page number.
And if not then say it is simply your opinion based on ignorance of the subject in question... As a Well known WOF preacher has said.
Being an expert on the WOF you should know who said that.
It is a very basic illustration of what WOF theology encompasses. While I have heard WOF'ers give similar examples I don't recall what they were or who said them and I certainly can't quote them.
However if you read any serious discussion on WOF (by doing a simple google search on WOF theology) you find this concept is generally accepted as the differentiation between WOF and basic Faith teaching.
It is part Metaphysicalism and part Mary Bakerism.
It equates this power to God's ability to speak creation into existence from nothing.
But is the implied complex combination of all this that makes WOF so dangerous.
No wonder you got out of that bunch Ed, they sound like a pack of fruit cakes with hundreds and thousands on top
I have heard something like that over here in Australia back in the 80s, small groups of non-denominal people who had screwed the faith message way too far out there
I have never found this kind of teaching coming from Kenneth Hagin though, only well grounded biblical teaching that allways lifted me up and gave me something solid to
You can allways recognise the excessive over the top rubbish if you are well grounded in the word of God.
The fruit produced is the best indicater of good and bad ministries, it may take time, but it will produce after its kind.