Dake Bible Discussion BoardInclusive Translations

General Discussion Forum devoted to the study of God's Word in Honor of Finis J. Dake.
User avatar
scottae316
No Plague Shall Come Nigh Them that Make the Lord Their Habitation
Posts: 307
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:21 am

Re: Inclusive Translations

Post by scottae316 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:21 am

branham1965 wrote:THANK YOU SCOTT. :rainbow1:
I know little about it.A Professor i know of from Texas is using it and he is pretty conservative.And another fellow who has a interesting testimony and was educated as well uses it.
WHAT would be questionable in the Old Testament???

scottae316 wrote:
branham1965 wrote:
scottae316 wrote:I imagine most here will not approve of inclusive translations.


WHAT do you think Scott old friend???

i have a NRSV :-) that im reading.it is different in those places.
Hi Billy,

Sorry I did not answer you sooner. The NRSV is not one of my favorite translations. It has some questionable translation in the Old Testament. As to the "Inclusive" language, the NRSV is one that stretches this concept to some of the farthest lengths. With this being said, other than some problem areas, it is a fairly accurate translation in most parts. The ESV would be a preferred choice over the NRSV for me. Hope this helps.

PAX
Scott
Hi Billy,

The major controversy stems from the translating of Isaiah 7:14, here is a short description from wikipedia:
"Possibly the single most controversial verse of the NRSV, as of the older Revised Standard Version, was Isaiah 7:14:
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look, the young woman is with child and shall bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel.
Here the NRSV renders the Hebrew word almah as "young woman", as did the RSV. The King James Bible had translated Isaiah's almah as "virgin", taking its lead from the Gospel of Matthew (Matthew 1:22-23), where Isaiah's almah is identified with the Virgin Mary. The almah is already pregnant, and Jewish translators have therefore rendered it as "young woman". Fundamentalist American Christians were outraged: nowhere in the Old Testament, they argued, was an almah anything other than a young unmarried girl; moreover, the Greek translators of Isaiah had shown by the word parthenos that they believed Isaiah to predict the virgin birth of the coming Messiah, and the inspired Gospel of Matthew had endorsed their choice by quoting the Greek. Scholars agree that almah has nothing to do with virginity (the word actually denotes a young woman of marriageable age, and the almah in Isaiah is already pregnant), but many conservative American Christians still judge the acceptability of new Bible translations by the way they deal with Isaiah 7:14."
-from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Revise ... l_passages

Hopes this helps.

PAX
Scott



User avatar
branham1965
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 5951
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:18 am

Re: Inclusive Translations

Post by branham1965 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:12 am

:smilecolros: :angel:
scottae316 wrote:
branham1965 wrote:THANK YOU SCOTT. :rainbow1:
I know little about it.A Professor i know of from Texas is using it and he is pretty conservative.And another fellow who has a interesting testimony and was educated as well uses it.
WHAT would be questionable in the Old Testament???

scottae316 wrote:
branham1965 wrote:
scottae316 wrote:I imagine most here will not approve of inclusive translations.


WHAT do you think Scott old friend???

i have a NRSV :-) that im reading.it is different in those places.
Hi Billy,

Sorry I did not answer you sooner. The NRSV is not one of my favorite translations. It has some questionable translation in the Old Testament. As to the "Inclusive" language, the NRSV is one that stretches this concept to some of the farthest lengths. With this being said, other than some problem areas, it is a fairly accurate translation in most parts. The ESV would be a preferred choice over the NRSV for me. Hope this helps.

PAX
Scott
Hi Billy,

The major controversy stems from the translating of Isaiah 7:14, here is a short description from wikipedia:
"Possibly the single most controversial verse of the NRSV, as of the older Revised Standard Version, was Isaiah 7:14:
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look, the young woman is with child and shall bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel.
Here the NRSV renders the Hebrew word almah as "young woman", as did the RSV. The King James Bible had translated Isaiah's almah as "virgin", taking its lead from the Gospel of Matthew (Matthew 1:22-23), where Isaiah's almah is identified with the Virgin Mary. The almah is already pregnant, and Jewish translators have therefore rendered it as "young woman". Fundamentalist American Christians were outraged: nowhere in the Old Testament, they argued, was an almah anything other than a young unmarried girl; moreover, the Greek translators of Isaiah had shown by the word parthenos that they believed Isaiah to predict the virgin birth of the coming Messiah, and the inspired Gospel of Matthew had endorsed their choice by quoting the Greek. Scholars agree that almah has nothing to do with virginity (the word actually denotes a young woman of marriageable age, and the almah in Isaiah is already pregnant), but many conservative American Christians still judge the acceptability of new Bible translations by the way they deal with Isaiah 7:14."
-from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Revise ... l_passages

Hopes this helps.

PAX
Scott



titus213
All Like Sheep Have Gone Astray; Every One to His Own Way
Posts: 1087
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:45 pm

Re: Inclusive Translations

Post by titus213 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:32 am

In general, I would say that the NRSV has the same tendency to play down the Messianic portions of the Old Testament, just as its predecessor (RSV) did. Check Psalm 2 as an example. Most of the translations sponsored by liberal denominations, like the NRSV, Common English Bible, Good News Bible, Contemporary English Version, etc. tend to do the same thing when it comes to these prophecies.



User avatar
branham1965
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 5951
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:18 am

Re: Inclusive Translations

Post by branham1965 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:35 am

A JEW IS ON THE TRANSLATION COMMITTEE.
NOTICE PSALMS 22 WHERE MESSIAH WAS PIERCED IN HIS HANDS AND FEET IT IS CHANGED :agrue:
fatherfisher wrote:In general, I would say that the NRSV has the same tendency to play down the Messianic portions of the Old Testament, just as its predecessor (RSV) did. Check Psalm 2 as an example. Most of the translations sponsored by liberal denominations, like the NRSV, Common English Bible, Good News Bible, Contermporary English Version, etc. tend to do the same thing when it comes to these prophecies.



User avatar
Spiritblade Disciple
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 4293
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:27 pm

Re: Inclusive Translations

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:12 pm

The one thing that I dislike most about the newer translations is the multitude of omitted verses.



User avatar
Spiritblade Disciple
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 4293
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:27 pm

Re: Inclusive Translations

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:17 pm

Also, I've heard the claim that most of the new versions, if not all, use the same Greek New Testament that the Jehovah's Witnesses used to produce the New World Translation.



titus213
All Like Sheep Have Gone Astray; Every One to His Own Way
Posts: 1087
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:45 pm

Re: Inclusive Translations

Post by titus213 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:33 pm

Also, I've heard the claim that most of the new versions, if not all, use the same Greek New Testament that the Jehovah's Witnesses used to produce the New World Translation.

Not really. They still use the Westcott & Hort text published in 1881. Modern translations use the most recent Greek NT text which is the Nestle-Aland 27th edition, published more than 100 years later.

But even more importantly, the Greek text they use they actually modify to fit their doctrine. So, for instance, the Greek words for hell are not translated as that, since they don't believe in hell. They also will intentionally add words not found in Greek, and which cannot be what the Greek means.

So it's a bigger deal than the Greek text they use. It's how they misuse it.



User avatar
branham1965
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 5951
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:18 am

Re: Inclusive Translations

Post by branham1965 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:52 pm

THE NEW WORLD TRANSLATION BIBLE COMMITTEE WAS HEADED BY FREDRICK WILLIAM FRANZ.HE WAS THE SCHOLAR SEER OF THE GROUP AFTER JUDGE RUTHERFORD DIED.SOME THINK HE GHOST WROTE A FEW OF RUTHERFORDS BOOKS WHEN HE GOT CANCER.
HE WAS THE MAIN MAN-LAST WORD WHEN IT CAME TO TRANSLATING....OR ANYTHING ELSE FROM 1942 ON.HE WROTE ALL THEIR BOOKS UNTIL HE DIED AT 99.IVE READ WHERE IT ITS SIMILAR TO THE ROTHERHAMS BIBLE.IM NOT SURE.
fatherfisher wrote:Also, I've heard the claim that most of the new versions, if not all, use the same Greek New Testament that the Jehovah's Witnesses used to produce the New World Translation.

Not really. They still use the Westcott & Hort text published in 1881. Modern translations use the most recent Greek NT text which is the Nestle-Aland 27th edition, published more than 100 years later.

But even more importantly, the Greek text they use they actually modify to fit their doctrine. So, for instance, the Greek words for hell are not translated as that, since they don't believe in hell. They also will intentionally add words not found in Greek, and which cannot be what the Greek means.

So it's a bigger deal than the Greek text they use. It's how they misuse it.



User avatar
Justaned
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 4063
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:19 pm

Re: Inclusive Translations

Post by Justaned » Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:11 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:Also, I've heard the claim that most of the new versions, if not all, use the same Greek New Testament that the Jehovah's Witnesses used to produce the New World Translation.
It can not be proven that Jehovah Witnesses ever had access to any manuscripts. Likewise though the translation team has never been identified by the Jehovah Witnesses, the people most likely involved were incapable of translating from Greek or Hebrew.

The evidence is fairly conclusive the the New World Translation is nothing more that a rewrite of the existing KJV with changes made to fit Jehovah Witness theology and as an attempt to fool people into thinking it was an original translation.



User avatar
Spiritblade Disciple
Little Children, Let No Man Deceive You: He that Doeth Righteousness is Righteous, Even as He is Righteous
Posts: 4293
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:27 pm

Re: Inclusive Translations

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:21 pm

Thank you, FatherFisher and Justaned.

What do you guys think of this tract from Jack Chick? Do you believe it is truthful?



Post Reply