Dake Bible Discussion BoardWhere will Ananias and Sapphira spend eternity?

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branham1965
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Re: Where will Ananias and Sapphira spend eternity?

Post by branham1965 »

NO ONE KNOWS THAT!!!!
WHY THE OBSESSION WITH THE DEAD AND THEIR DESTINY.
THOSE FOLKS ARE DEAD,BURIED AND BONES.



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Ironman
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Re: Where will Ananias and Sapphira spend eternity?

Post by Ironman »

branham1965 wrote:NO ONE KNOWS THAT!!!!
WHY THE OBSESSION WITH THE DEAD AND THEIR DESTINY.
THOSE FOLKS ARE DEAD,BURIED AND BONES.
Dont know billy? I'm not obsessed with where the O.T. dead are??

Heres the bloke who seems to be??
"Fri May 31, 2013 5:22 am by Justaned
Where will Ananias and Sapphira spend eternity?
In Acts 5 we find the story of the Ananias and Sapphira. They sold their property and pretended to give all the proceeds to church. Insted they held back some. Which in effect made them liars.
The both were struck dead and carried out the church.

Where do you think they will spend eternity? Why?Top Report this pos tReply with quote."
.

I asked him, "Where do you think they will spend eternity? and Why?

He got all defensive, and said was getting all huffy?? Suggested I did not know the answer and that he did not expect me to know the answer and he asked?
"What don't you like about this question? If you don't know the answer that is okay I really didn't expect you to. I see no reason to get all huffy about it."
I dont get huffy, thats what some girls do when their eye shadow or lipstick runs. Men dont get all huffy? they get :2gunfire: :snipersmile: +hammer

I replied; "I'm not huffy about anything? They lied to the Holy Spirit, thats sin and they died in their sin and they would be in Hell, but truly, who but they themselves and God would care where they are?

Thats my take on it. I'm more interested in where I will end up rather than where OT people ended up because of what they did or did not do!


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

titus213
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Re: Where will Ananias and Sapphira spend eternity?

Post by titus213 »

I agree . . . as you read the story (especially if you just ignore the chapter break) the impression certainly is that, along with Joses (Barnabas), they were part of "the multitude of them that believed" (Acts 4.32).



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macca
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Re: Where will Ananias and Sapphira spend eternity?

Post by macca »

branham1965 wrote:NO ONE KNOWS THAT!!!!
WHY THE OBSESSION WITH THE DEAD AND THEIR DESTINY.
THOSE FOLKS ARE DEAD,BURIED AND BONES.


The Holy Spirit knows and thats why He included this paticular truth.
It shows that Jesus will not tolerate diception in His body.
He cut this out at the begining so all would know that lying to the Holy Spirit is death to a christian.

Macca



titus213
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Re: Where will Ananias and Sapphira spend eternity?

Post by titus213 »

Something like it wasn't totally unknown . . . Augustine believed that the elect, and only the elect, are given the gift of perseverance and cannot help but persevere:

“To the saints predestinated to the kingdom of God by God’s grace, the aid of perseverance that is given is not such as the former, but such that to them perseverance itself is bestowed; not only so that without that gift they cannot persevere, but, moreover, so that by means of this gift they cannot help persevering. For not only did He say, “Without me ye can do nothing,” but He also said, “Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain.” By which words He showed that He had given them not only righteousness, but perseverance therein. For when Christ thus ordained them that they should go and bring forth fruit, and that their fruit should remain, who would dare to say, It shall not remain? Who would dare to say, Perchance it will not remain? “For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance;” but the calling is of those who are called according to the purpose. When Christ intercedes, therefore, on behalf of these, that their faith should not fail, doubtless it will not fail unto the end. And thus it shall persevere even unto the end; nor shall the end of this life find it anything but continuing.”

(On Grace and Free Will, Chapter 34)

But certainly the Greek early church fathers did not follow this teaching.



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Justaned
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Re: Where will Ananias and Sapphira spend eternity?

Post by Justaned »

Interesting comments so far. May I ask why do you think such drastic action was taken to these two alone. I think it is reasonable to assume that down through the ages others have done similar things, yet this is the only recorded account of such drastic action.

To those that felt they were saved. Do you really believe a converted creation could entertain and commit this act? If so doesn't that suggest that all Chritians are very capable of lying? Even those that claim a healing to get recognization in the church?

If this can take place in a believer then what is the difference between believers and non believers. Is this why we so distrust politicians that claim to be Christians. Since we believe born again believers can and do lie the policitican is probably lying also?



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Justaned
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Re: Where will Ananias and Sapphira spend eternity?

Post by Justaned »

Please don't let this slide into a Once Saved Always Saved discussion.

We have had such in the past and all have proven to be very unfruitful.

Let us just discuss the matter at hand Ananias and Sapphira. What they did, what the consequences were, why were they so drastic, was their behavior considered normal and expected in the church at the time? Is it normal and expected in the church of today? By normal and expected I don't excuse their sin or even minimize it but some of it occurs today and I often believe a blind eye is turned on it.

What about people that give in the offering marking their envelop as a tithe but actually give less than 10%? Do we expect them to struck dead? If now why not?



titus213
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Re: Where will Ananias and Sapphira spend eternity?

Post by titus213 »

Maybe part of the reason God reacted the way he did was to make it clear just who the Holy Spirit really is. It may have been that to the disciples, even after Pentecost, the Spirit was still thought of as God's power or influence rather than as God himself? Acts 5 certainly reveals him as a Person who is capable of personal treatment (he can be lied to and tempted) and is, in fact, God.
In the early days of Israel's history, God sometimes really lowered the boom on them when compared to their later history, presumably to set the tone and establish his authority with them early on. Maybe the same kind of thing was happening in the early days of the church. From v.11 it would seem there was a need for a healthy fear of God in the midst of the hey-day of church growth that was taking place.



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Justaned
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Re: Where will Ananias and Sapphira spend eternity?

Post by Justaned »

fatherfisher wrote:Maybe part of the reason God reacted the way he did was to make it clear just who the Holy Spirit really is. It may have been that to the disciples, even after Pentecost, the Spirit was still thought of as God's power or influence rather than as God himself? Acts 5 certainly reveals him as a Person who is capable of personal treatment (he can be lied to and tempted) and is, in fact, God.
In the early days of Israel's history, God sometimes really lowered the boom on them when compared to their later history, presumably to set the tone and establish his authority with them early on. Maybe the same kind of thing was happening in the early days of the church. From v.11 it would seem there was a need for a healthy fear of God in the midst of the hey-day of church growth that was taking place.

Would not that same "healthy fear benefit the church today?

How did Ananias lie to the Holy Spirit? He sold the properity kept back some and laid the rest at the Apostles feet. Where did the lie to the Holy Spirit come in? What was he lying about? The amount of money or the fact he would try something like this while claiming to be a Christian? The latter would be more of a lie to the Holy Spirit than the former.

In other words what he punished for impersonating a Christian or holding back money. We know his crime was holding back money.



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Re: Where will Ananias and Sapphira spend eternity?

Post by Ironman »

Justaned wrote:
fatherfisher wrote:Maybe part of the reason God reacted the way he did was to make it clear just who the Holy Spirit really is. It may have been that to the disciples, even after Pentecost, the Spirit was still thought of as God's power or influence rather than as God himself? Acts 5 certainly reveals him as a Person who is capable of personal treatment (he can be lied to and tempted) and is, in fact, God.
In the early days of Israel's history, God sometimes really lowered the boom on them when compared to their later history, presumably to set the tone and establish his authority with them early on. Maybe the same kind of thing was happening in the early days of the church. From v.11 it would seem there was a need for a healthy fear of God in the midst of the hey-day of church growth that was taking place.

Would not that same "healthy fear benefit the church today?

How did Ananias lie to the Holy Spirit? He sold the properity kept back some and laid the rest at the Apostles feet. Where did the lie to the Holy Spirit come in? What was he lying about? The amount of money or the fact he would try something like this while claiming to be a Christian? The latter would be more of a lie to the Holy Spirit than the former.

In other words what he punished for impersonating a Christian or holding back money. We know his crime was holding back money.
In Acts 4:31, "And when they had prayed the place was shaken where they asembled together and they were ALL filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spoke the Word of God with boldness."

The earth quake was evidence of the presence of God and of answered prayer. There are many such examples throughout Scripture.

In Acts 4 verse 34-37, we see where many of the disciples were quite well off! "Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus, Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet."

It is stated in the above Scriptures that; "as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them."

But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession! They would have had at least as much as the others yet it it stated in Acts 5:1, they sold 'A' posession! Not only did they sell only one posession, they kept back a part of its selling price. V 3, They allowed Satan to fill their hearts with deciet and greed which is what caused them to hold back part of the selling price, the profit, and in so doing they lied to the Holy Spirit. They thought they could dupe the Holy Spirit into thinking they had given the entire amount of the sale when in fact they kept part of it for themselves whilst making a shew of giving!


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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