Dake Bible Discussion BoardThank God for a know so salvation!

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Spiritblade Disciple
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Re: Thank God for a know so salvation!

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:52 pm

Hmmm....

Well, I still think you're misusing the term.

But, if you're leg's broke, it's broke. But, it doesn't have to stay that way.



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branham1965
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Re: Thank God for a know so salvation!

Post by branham1965 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:48 pm

REVED,
Peter Ruckman has read the Bible through about once a month :shocked!: for 50 or 60 more years!!!!!!!!!!!
he is very controversial.
He is a radical Baptist and will be until the Judgement.He says the KJV is more accurate than the original manuscripts.
im not getting on the man. He was a Marine drill instructor.
but its impossible for him =or any of us=to read the Bible WITHOUT PRECONCEIVED NOTIONS AND PREJUDICES.
thereby what we read is interpreted by all of our ..............CREEDAL SPECTACLES.

Justaned wrote:
branham1965 wrote:REVED
please friend say what you mean. no need to hide it.
would you say much of the WOF Charismatic doctrine today is based on Dr.E.W. Kenyon's alleged involvement in metaphysics and mind science religion???
is that what you are speaking in coded language???? or is it something else entirely???
Justaned wrote:
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:OKay. I read it.

Now, I'm confused as to why saying that Word of Faith is metaphysical is a bad thing.
Roger
I don't think you grasp metaphysical philsophy. Reread the wiki definition.

Again the problem isn't something like you must go out nude at midnight cover your self with animal blood and pray to Satan. It is much more subtle than that. It really deals in the realm of "pride of life" and all that it entails.

Metaphysics is not a demonic philosophy it only become troublesome when we try to slide it into our fellowship with God.
Billy
I'm not hiding anything. I'm being careful I don't give an opening to where someone can take a misspeak and turn it around.
The problem isn't a teaching of one man or even one philosophy the problem is people hear some words that sound good Word of Faith. They say to themselves I know the word, Word it is good and I know the word Faith and that is good so anything anyone says under the guise of Word of Faith has to be good.

In other words they check their thinking at that door and suck in everything that is shoveled their way while inside. Many of them proudly stand rocking on their heels saying I have learned to eat the meat and spit out the bones but in truth if they are served bones often enough they will eat them with the meat.

Even more claim to know the Bible but in fact they have never never never sat down and read it through cover to cover. How can anyone claim to know something that they have never read? Do they really believe they can sit in church any church and learn the truth about God without ever reading the letter God wrote to them?



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Justaned
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Re: Thank God for a know so salvation!

Post by Justaned » Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:32 pm

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:Hmmm....

Well, I still think you're misusing the term.

But, if you're leg's broke, it's broke. But, it doesn't have to stay that way.
Spiritblade disciple
I assure you I'm not misusing the term. It is a complex issue and to understand it you must understand how closely Metaphysics is to true Christianity but also how far it is.
If you PM I will give you a few other links. But do a search on Metaphysics and theology and Word of Faith and Metaphysics. There is a ton of junk but there is also some careful research.



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Re: Thank God for a know so salvation!

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:21 pm

  • Metaphysics (Merriam-Webster)
    • a (1) : a division of philosophy that is concerned with the fundamental nature of reality and being and that includes ontology, cosmology, and often epistemology (2) : ontology 2

      b : abstract philosophical studies : a study of what is outside objective experience
  • Metaphysics (Concise Encyclopedia)
    • Branch of philosophy that studies the ultimate structure and constitution of reality—i.e., of that which is real, insofar as it is real. The term, which means literally “what comes after physics,” was used to refer to the treatise by Aristotle on what he himself called “first philosophy.” In the history of Western philosophy, metaphysics has been understood in various ways: as an inquiry into what basic categories of things there are (e.g., the mental and the physical); as the study of reality, as opposed to appearance; as the study of the world as a whole; and as a theory of first principles. Some basic problems in the history of metaphysics are the problem of universals—i.e., the problem of the nature of universals and their relation to so-called particulars; the existence of God; the mind-body problem; and the problem of the nature of material, or external, objects. Major types of metaphysical theory include Platonism, Aristotelianism, Thomism, Cartesianism (see also dualism), idealism, realism, and materialism.
My best guess is that you're referring to a minor subset of metaphysical theory.



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Re: Thank God for a know so salvation!

Post by macca » Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:07 am

Justaned wrote:
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Justaned wrote:Roger you read a synopsis or summary of what was written in Wikipedia and stopped. There is an aspect of the metaphysics that is equating of man's abilites to accomplish what we consider only God is able to do. Read the definition in total and look for this.
I read 90% of it, Ed, and didn't see what you're talking about.

I suspect that what you're talking about isn't really metaphysics, but something else that you're calling metaphysics.

Please, quote from the Wikipedia article where it says that the primary goal of metaphysics is to employ human abilities to accomplish what only God is able to do.

The Word of Faith folks would say that this is the purpose of the anointing. God on flesh doing through flesh what only God can do.

Thanks.
Roger
No the Wikipedia article does not say metaphysics is defined as "where it says that the primary goal of metaphysics is to employ human abilities to accomplish what only God is able to do."

Metaphysics deals with existence of things and their creation. It focuses on creation of something from nothing. Where did it come from and how did it get there. As you delve deeper into metaphysics you see where man is considered in this process.

Simply said as God spoke creation into existence man through the application of faith can do like wise.

Example if you fall down and break your leg, the leg isn't really broken until you or someone that witnesses the event says your leg is broke. At that point the actual broken leg is then manifested.



That is not what i know as word of faith Ed.. Thats just made up goobldygook. whoever believes that way is doomed to failure.

macca



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Re: Thank God for a know so salvation!

Post by bibleman » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:56 am

Justaned wrote:
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Justaned wrote:Roger you read a synopsis or summary of what was written in Wikipedia and stopped. There is an aspect of the metaphysics that is equating of man's abilites to accomplish what we consider only God is able to do. Read the definition in total and look for this.
I read 90% of it, Ed, and didn't see what you're talking about.

I suspect that what you're talking about isn't really metaphysics, but something else that you're calling metaphysics.

Please, quote from the Wikipedia article where it says that the primary goal of metaphysics is to employ human abilities to accomplish what only God is able to do.

The Word of Faith folks would say that this is the purpose of the anointing. God on flesh doing through flesh what only God can do.

Thanks.
Roger
No the Wikipedia article does not say metaphysics is defined as "where it says that the primary goal of metaphysics is to employ human abilities to accomplish what only God is able to do."

Metaphysics deals with existence of things and their creation. It focuses on creation of something from nothing. Where did it come from and how did it get there. As you delve deeper into metaphysics you see where man is considered in this process.

Simply said as God spoke creation into existence man through the application of faith can do like wise.

Example if you fall down and break your leg, the leg isn't really broken until you or someone that witnesses the event says your leg is broke. At that point the actual broken leg is then manifested.
Hi Ed,

Your example is NOT WOF.

I have been WOF for over 30 years now and I have never heard that taught by anyone.

Why not pick up a few WOF books and find out for yourself what WOF teaches.


God bless
Leon Bible

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The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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Justaned
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Re: Thank God for a know so salvation!

Post by Justaned » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:27 am

Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
  • Metaphysics (Merriam-Webster)
    • a (1) : a division of philosophy that is concerned with the fundamental nature of reality and being and that includes ontology, cosmology, and often epistemology (2) : ontology 2

      b : abstract philosophical studies : a study of what is outside objective experience
  • Metaphysics (Concise Encyclopedia)
    • Branch of philosophy that studies the ultimate structure and constitution of reality—i.e., of that which is real, insofar as it is real. The term, which means literally “what comes after physics,” was used to refer to the treatise by Aristotle on what he himself called “first philosophy.” In the history of Western philosophy, metaphysics has been understood in various ways: as an inquiry into what basic categories of things there are (e.g., the mental and the physical); as the study of reality, as opposed to appearance; as the study of the world as a whole; and as a theory of first principles. Some basic problems in the history of metaphysics are the problem of universals—i.e., the problem of the nature of universals and their relation to so-called particulars; the existence of God; the mind-body problem; and the problem of the nature of material, or external, objects. Major types of metaphysical theory include Platonism, Aristotelianism, Thomism, Cartesianism (see also dualism), idealism, realism, and materialism.
My best guess is that you're referring to a minor subset of metaphysical theory.
If you have read any of the link I cited you will see they says Metaphysics is hard to define, meaning many things to many people as the philosophy is developed by them. The main point is "What is there" and "What is it like."

Or how did it come into being? Metaphysics often tries to define the power of creation without interjecting the concept that it is solely of God. Man shares into it in effect.



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Re: Thank God for a know so salvation!

Post by Justaned » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:30 am

bibleman wrote:
Justaned wrote:
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Justaned wrote:Roger you read a synopsis or summary of what was written in Wikipedia and stopped. There is an aspect of the metaphysics that is equating of man's abilites to accomplish what we consider only God is able to do. Read the definition in total and look for this.
I read 90% of it, Ed, and didn't see what you're talking about.

I suspect that what you're talking about isn't really metaphysics, but something else that you're calling metaphysics.

Please, quote from the Wikipedia article where it says that the primary goal of metaphysics is to employ human abilities to accomplish what only God is able to do.

The Word of Faith folks would say that this is the purpose of the anointing. God on flesh doing through flesh what only God can do.

Thanks.
Roger
No the Wikipedia article does not say metaphysics is defined as "where it says that the primary goal of metaphysics is to employ human abilities to accomplish what only God is able to do."

Metaphysics deals with existence of things and their creation. It focuses on creation of something from nothing. Where did it come from and how did it get there. As you delve deeper into metaphysics you see where man is considered in this process.

Simply said as God spoke creation into existence man through the application of faith can do like wise.

Example if you fall down and break your leg, the leg isn't really broken until you or someone that witnesses the event says your leg is broke. At that point the actual broken leg is then manifested.
Hi Ed,

Your example is NOT WOF.

I have been WOF for over 30 years now and I have never heard that taught by anyone.

Why not pick up a few WOF books and find out for yourself what WOF teaches.
I know what WOF teaches I also know that is exactly what WOF believes after the onion is peeled all the way back.

As I said before many that mistakenly claim to be WOF do not believe this way but that is one of the defining points of WOF. So if you don't believe this way then perhaps you would be better to separate yourself from WOF and begin calling youself a Faith Teacher or Preacher. :mrgreen:



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Re: Thank God for a know so salvation!

Post by bibleman » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:48 am

Justaned wrote:
bibleman wrote:
Justaned wrote:
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Justaned wrote:Roger you read a synopsis or summary of what was written in Wikipedia and stopped. There is an aspect of the metaphysics that is equating of man's abilites to accomplish what we consider only God is able to do. Read the definition in total and look for this.
I read 90% of it, Ed, and didn't see what you're talking about.

I suspect that what you're talking about isn't really metaphysics, but something else that you're calling metaphysics.

Please, quote from the Wikipedia article where it says that the primary goal of metaphysics is to employ human abilities to accomplish what only God is able to do.

The Word of Faith folks would say that this is the purpose of the anointing. God on flesh doing through flesh what only God can do.

Thanks.
Roger
No the Wikipedia article does not say metaphysics is defined as "where it says that the primary goal of metaphysics is to employ human abilities to accomplish what only God is able to do."

Metaphysics deals with existence of things and their creation. It focuses on creation of something from nothing. Where did it come from and how did it get there. As you delve deeper into metaphysics you see where man is considered in this process.

Simply said as God spoke creation into existence man through the application of faith can do like wise.

Example if you fall down and break your leg, the leg isn't really broken until you or someone that witnesses the event says your leg is broke. At that point the actual broken leg is then manifested.
Hi Ed,

Your example is NOT WOF.

I have been WOF for over 30 years now and I have never heard that taught by anyone.

Why not pick up a few WOF books and find out for yourself what WOF teaches.
I know what WOF teaches I also know that is exactly what WOF believes after the onion is peeled all the way back.

As I said before many that mistakenly claim to be WOF do not believe this way but that is one of the defining points of WOF. So if you don't believe this way then perhaps you would be better to separate yourself from WOF and begin calling youself a Faith Teacher or Preacher. :mrgreen:
Hi Ed,

Above you said: "Example if you fall down and break your leg, the leg isn't really broken until you or someone that witnesses the event says your leg is broke. At that point the actual broken leg is then manifested."

Then you said: "I know what WOF teaches I also know that is exactly what WOF believes after the onion is peeled all the way back."

OK - I will yield to on this point... IF - IF - IF you produce any of the following.

A book title and page number where that is stated by a WOF author?
A youtube video where that is stated by a WOF minister?
A CD or tape where that is stated by a WOF minister?

Do that AND I will gladly say you are right.

Until then you are just making something up that you WANT and WISH... WOF taught... that of course they do not.

OK lets have the evidence.


God bless
Leon Bible

http://www.ministryhelps.com
http://www.dakebible.com
http://www.dakebibleboard.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DakeBibleDiscussion/

The fault in Bible complications is not with God or the Bible, but with men who refuse to believe what God says and think we have to interpret what He says in order to get the meaning. Dake Bible -Mark 11:17 note

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Justaned
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Re: Thank God for a know so salvation!

Post by Justaned » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:01 am

bibleman wrote:
Justaned wrote:
bibleman wrote:
Justaned wrote:
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
Justaned wrote:Roger you read a synopsis or summary of what was written in Wikipedia and stopped. There is an aspect of the metaphysics that is equating of man's abilites to accomplish what we consider only God is able to do. Read the definition in total and look for this.
I read 90% of it, Ed, and didn't see what you're talking about.

I suspect that what you're talking about isn't really metaphysics, but something else that you're calling metaphysics.

Please, quote from the Wikipedia article where it says that the primary goal of metaphysics is to employ human abilities to accomplish what only God is able to do.

The Word of Faith folks would say that this is the purpose of the anointing. God on flesh doing through flesh what only God can do.

Thanks.
Roger
No the Wikipedia article does not say metaphysics is defined as "where it says that the primary goal of metaphysics is to employ human abilities to accomplish what only God is able to do."

Metaphysics deals with existence of things and their creation. It focuses on creation of something from nothing. Where did it come from and how did it get there. As you delve deeper into metaphysics you see where man is considered in this process.

Simply said as God spoke creation into existence man through the application of faith can do like wise.

Example if you fall down and break your leg, the leg isn't really broken until you or someone that witnesses the event says your leg is broke. At that point the actual broken leg is then manifested.
Hi Ed,

Your example is NOT WOF.

I have been WOF for over 30 years now and I have never heard that taught by anyone.

Why not pick up a few WOF books and find out for yourself what WOF teaches.
I know what WOF teaches I also know that is exactly what WOF believes after the onion is peeled all the way back.

As I said before many that mistakenly claim to be WOF do not believe this way but that is one of the defining points of WOF. So if you don't believe this way then perhaps you would be better to separate yourself from WOF and begin calling youself a Faith Teacher or Preacher. :mrgreen:
Hi Ed,

Above you said: "Example if you fall down and break your leg, the leg isn't really broken until you or someone that witnesses the event says your leg is broke. At that point the actual broken leg is then manifested."

Then you said: "I know what WOF teaches I also know that is exactly what WOF believes after the onion is peeled all the way back."

OK - I will yield to on this point... IF - IF - IF you produce any of the following.

A book title and page number where that is stated by a WOF author?
A youtube video where that is stated by a WOF minister?
A CD or tape where that is stated by a WOF minister?

Do that AND I will gladly say you are right.

Until then you are just making something up that you WANT and WISH... WOF taught... that of course they do not.

OK lets have the evidence.
I don't have to read the book Christianity is Crisis. It is carefully detailed out.
Do a search on google "Falsehoods of Word of Faith"
You will find all the evidence you want and you can argue with those people.



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