YES IRONMAN, In the eyes of God and through man's eye of faith these O.T. believers were saved. "Faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen."bibleman wrote:Hi Ed,Justaned wrote:Peter and Judas could not have been saved as salvation requires remission of sin. They were in sin, their sins had not been paid. Scripture says the wages of sin or the price of sin is death. A sacrifice had to be made. An animal sacrifice only paid for the year. It required the blood of an eternal sacrifice, yes was the only eternal being that was perfect (without blemish) that offered His blood on the altar of God. Without that blood the penalty for sin still existed and Peter and Judas still owed it.dolph wrote:Ed, I think these verses above are so strong against a person getting a second chance that they trump Dake's scriptures. But there really does seem to be a contradiction in scripture. I agree with Ironman that Peter and Judas were saved before they sinned. God always had a remnant of believers simply by believing in God like Abraham or looking forward to the coming Messiah or the cross.Justaned wrote:Again everyone is saying I'm wrong that saved people can sin lose their salvation, confess their sin and repent and be saved again.
Okay then explainemphasis mineHebrews 6:4-6 (NKJV)
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
And it isn't said only once but repeated again inemphasis mineHebrews 10:26-27 (NKJV)
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
Everyone keeps giving me the false teaching of Backslidding where preachers wants us to believe we ride a roller coaster of salvation damnation. We are saved when we live like they say we should live and are damned to eteranl damnation when we don't.
Scripture clearly states that salvation can be lost. But it also is just as clear saying once salvation is lost there is nothing left to save us again.
The fact they had the Holy Spirit on them does not prove anything Elijah and Elisha raised the dead, stopped the rain, called down fire but they never claimed to be saved. Only righteous in the eyes of God awaiting that which would save them the Messiah.
Luke 7:44-48 (KJV) 44 And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.
45 Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.
46 My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.
47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.
So you are saying that this woman's sins were NOT forgiven?
Ed, you're being too technical and getting into semantics. These O.T. saints were as much saved as you and I.