Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Saved!, Sinned! What now

[Justaned]

This thread is being opened to prevent another thread from being hijacked.

Ironman has said that many in the New Testament who were saved sinned and lost their salvation and to get it back had to confess their sin and repent.

I said there are no such examples.

Ironman offered both Peter and Judas.

I rebutted saying neither were under the New Covenant at the time of their sin, that if they didn't need Jesus' death to supply their salvation then Jesus didn't die for everyone just a select few that couldn't get salvation on their own.

I further said both

Hebrews 6:4-6 (NLT)
4 For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit,
5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come—
6 and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame.

and

Hebrews 10:26-31 (NLT)
26 Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins.
27 There is only the terrible expectation of God’s judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies.
28 For anyone who refused to obey the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God’s mercy to us.
30 For we know the one who said, “I will take revenge. I will pay them back.” He also said, “The LORD will judge his own people.”
31 It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Clearly say it is impossible to be saved, lose your salvation and regain it again.

I also stated there is no example or admonishment in the New Testament that once we are saved that we must confess and repent of our sins for them to be forgiven and our salvation restored.

[Justaned]

If you think about this think about Jesus being our intercessor, our covering.

If we are in Christ and we sin our sins are still under the blood of Jesus, God doesn't see them. If God did then God would be required to charge them to our account as unpaid.

But we know Jesus died for our sins, all our sins, past, present and yes future.

They are covered!

Now before anyone charges me with believing in Once Saved Always Saved let me say I do NOT!

Both Hebrew 6 and Hebrew 10 tells us that is possible to lose our salvation.

But those passages also say that if a person is saved and loses his salvation it is impossible for that person to ever be saved again.

Am I saying if we sin we should go on as if nothing happened? NO!

What I'm saying if we are in right relationship with Christ we should love Him and Trust Him enough to know our relationship will always exist.

If we wrong Jesus He doesn't stop being our brother but He can be hurt or disappointed in us and if we really respect Jesus we owe Him an apology. But like our natural brother and our spouses Jesus isn't a score keeper. So that when we apologize for offending him with our sin and apologizing Jesus doesn't say oh you missed one.

This whole concept of backslidding as commonly taught in the church where if you sin and die you might miss your salvation is without scriptural support.

[branham1965]

The New Testament is full of examples of people falling away.some returned.some there is no record of them returning.

In Acts 8 Phillip preached to the Samaritans. v4 the Lord confirmed his Word and performed miracles and signs.great joy was in that city.a magician named Simon saw the real miracles and genuine wonders by Phillip.
"but when they believed Phillip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ they were being BAPTIZED both men and women alike.and even Simon himself believed and after being BAPTIZED he continued on with Phillip and as he observed the signs and great miracles taking place he was amazed." nasb 1977
it took the Apostles to come v 14 and lay hands on these new believers for the Holy Spirit .he offered them money so he could do what the Apostles were doing.Peter told him Repent of this wickedness of yours and pray the Lord if possible the intention of your heart may be forgiven you.for i see that you are in the gall of bitterness and the bondage of iniquity.
v24 Simon asked the Apostles for prayer.
The Corinthian fornicator 1 Cor 5 was in grave sin.he was turned over to Satan by the Apostle Paul.
He repented and was RESTORED.see Galatians 6:1"Brethren even if a man is caught in any trespass you who are spiritual RESTORE such a one in the spirit of gentleness each one looking to yourself lest you to bee tempted.bear one anothers burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ....
Paul told them in his second Epistle "for behold what earnestness this very thing ,this godly sorrow has produced in you :what vindication of yourselves,what indignation,what fear,what longing,what zeal what avenging of wrong! 2 Cor 7:11
a person can fall and be restored.

If you think about this think about Jesus being our intercessor, our covering.

If we are in Christ and we sin our sins are still under the blood of Jesus, God doesn't see them. If God did then God would be required to charge them to our account as unpaid.

But we know Jesus died for our sins, all our sins, past, present and yes future.

They are covered!

Now before anyone charges me with believing in Once Saved Always Saved let me say I do NOT!

Both Hebrew 6 and Hebrew 10 tells us that is possible to lose our salvation.

But those passages also say that if a person is saved and loses his salvation it is impossible for that person to ever be saved again.

Am I saying if we sin we should go on as if nothing happened? NO!

What I'm saying if we are in right relationship with Christ we should love Him and Trust Him enough to know our relationship will always exist.

If we wrong Jesus He doesn't stop being our brother but He can be hurt or disappointed in us and if we really respect Jesus we owe Him an apology. But like our natural brother and our spouses Jesus isn't a score keeper. So that when we apologize for offending him with our sin and apologizing Jesus doesn't say oh you missed one.

This whole concept of backslidding as commonly taught in the church where if you sin and die you might miss your salvation is without scriptural support.

[branham1965]

No none of it is the truth.

Mr.Wommack needs to look at himself in the Mirror of God James 1.

Ed said, Jesus isn't a score keeper and doesn't see our sins. Jesus is our future Judge and He does see our sins.

When a Christian sins, he is serving the devil and has changed allegiances and made the devil his father. He need to repent, confess his sin and do the first works of salvation over again. Jesus clearly said that Peter, who had denied Christ, cursed and swore, had to be "converted" afterwards. This is plain New Testament vernacular. All believers understand that "convert" means to be born-again. Peter had heard Christ say to Nicodemos, you must be born again.

Dake gives 14 additional scripture that a believer can fall and be born-again a second time. (P.426-9, GPFM)

The new birth is a moral change, not a physical one, a change of heart.

To be fair, Andrew Wommack teaches that a person who is born again has a brand new spirit that is perfect, a new creation that he will have for eternity. He is a spirit, lives in a body and has a soul. All this I always believed, BUT the scripture Dake offers is very convincing.

You can also make an argument that sins where a man "slips momentarily" don't cost one his salvation. This seems reasonable but where's the scripture?

[Justaned]

The New Testament is full of examples of people falling away.some returned.some there is no record of them returning.

In Acts 8 Phillip preached to the Samaritans. v4 the Lord confirmed his Word and performed miracles and signs.great joy was in that city.a magician named Simon saw the real miracles and genuine wonders by Phillip.
"but when they believed Phillip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ they were being BAPTIZED both men and women alike.and even Simon himself believed and after being BAPTIZED he continued on with Phillip and as he observed the signs and great miracles taking place he was amazed." nasb 1977
it took the Apostles to come v 14 and lay hands on these new believers for the Holy Spirit .he offered them money so he could do what the Apostles were doing.Peter told him Repent of this wickedness of yours and pray the Lord if possible the intention of your heart may be forgiven you.for i see that you are in the gall of bitterness and the bondage of iniquity.
v24 Simon asked the Apostles for prayer.
The Corinthian fornicator 1 Cor 5 was in grave sin.he was turned over to Satan by the Apostle Paul.
He repented and was RESTORED.see Galatians 6:1"Brethren even if a man is caught in any trespass you who are spiritual RESTORE such a one in the spirit of gentleness each one looking to yourself lest you to bee tempted.bear one anothers burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ....
Paul told them in his second Epistle "for behold what earnestness this very thing ,this godly sorrow has produced in you :what vindication of yourselves,what indignation,what fear,what longing,what zeal what avenging of wrong! 2 Cor 7:11
a person can fall and be restored.

If you think about this think about Jesus being our intercessor, our covering.

If we are in Christ and we sin our sins are still under the blood of Jesus, God doesn't see them. If God did then God would be required to charge them to our account as unpaid.

But we know Jesus died for our sins, all our sins, past, present and yes future.

They are covered!

Now before anyone charges me with believing in Once Saved Always Saved let me say I do NOT!

Both Hebrew 6 and Hebrew 10 tells us that is possible to lose our salvation.

But those passages also say that if a person is saved and loses his salvation it is impossible for that person to ever be saved again.

Am I saying if we sin we should go on as if nothing happened? NO!

What I'm saying if we are in right relationship with Christ we should love Him and Trust Him enough to know our relationship will always exist.

If we wrong Jesus He doesn't stop being our brother but He can be hurt or disappointed in us and if we really respect Jesus we owe Him an apology. But like our natural brother and our spouses Jesus isn't a score keeper. So that when we apologize for offending him with our sin and apologizing Jesus doesn't say oh you missed one.

This whole concept of backslidding as commonly taught in the church where if you sin and die you might miss your salvation is without scriptural support.

Billy
We don't know if Simon was saved or not. It says he believed however there are a lot of people that believe and are not saved.
Secondly Peter doesn't tell him he lost his salvation and needs to repent to get it back. He says repent so God doesn't so thus and such.

We are not told if the man in 1 Cor 5 was saved or not. Apparently he wasn't because Paul says throw him out so he can be saved.

All these examples you cite are people thatprobably were not saved to begin with.
What do you do with Hebrews 6 and Hebrew 10?

[Justaned]

Ed said, Jesus isn't a score keeper and doesn't see our sins. Jesus is our future Judge and He does see our sins.

When a Christian sins, he is serving the devil and has changed allegiances and made the devil his father. He need to repent, confess his sin and do the first works of salvation over again. Jesus clearly said that Peter, who had denied Christ, cursed and swore, had to be "converted" afterwards. This is plain New Testament vernacular. All believers understand that "convert" means to be born-again. Peter had heard Christ say to Nicodemos, you must be born again.

Dake gives 14 additional scripture that a believer can fall and be born-again a second time. (P.426-9, GPFM)

The new birth is a moral change, not a physical one, a change of heart.

To be fair, Andrew Wommack teaches that a person who is born again has a brand new spirit that is perfect, a new creation that he will have for eternity. He is a spirit, lives in a body and has a soul. All this I always believed, BUT the scripture Dake offers is very convincing.

You can also make an argument that sins where a man "slips momentarily" don't cost one his salvation. This seems reasonable but where's the scripture?

Are the 1050 laws in the N.T. commandments or recommendations??

Dolph
If you are going to try to quote me try to do it correctly.

I never said Jesus don't see our sins. I said God didn't because they are under the blood. Why else would Jesus be our intercessor?

Dolph how do you handle Hebrews 6 and Hebrews 10 if you think a saved person can be saved, sinned, lose his salvation and be saved again?

I want your answer not something someone list 16 reason for. Tell how you think it is possible when scripture plainly says it is impossible.

[Justaned]

I went to Dolph's referrence in GPM and I found this.

The whole trouble with certain teachers is that they think being “born again” is the same in every sense as a physical birth, and much false teaching is based upon this assumption. The new birth is a moral change, not a physical one. It is a change of heart, will, motives, desires, life, and conduct, but not of organism. The very moment a man decides to turn to God, and truly repents and believes the Gospel, this moral change takes place (Mk. 1:15; 2 Cor. 5:17; 7:9-10; Rom. 1:16; 3:24-25; 10:9-10; Jas. 1:18-25; 1 Pet. 1:18-23; 1 Jn. 5). The very moment the same man decides to transgress, and lust has conceived, it brings forth sin; and when sin is finished, it brings forth death and a moral fall again (Jas. 1:13-15; 5:19-20; Rom. 6:11-23; 8:1-13; Jn. 8:34; 2 Pet. 2:19-22; Heb. 10:26-39). One then ceases to be a child of God and is again a child of the devil (Jn. 8:34, 44; Eph. 2:1-3; 1 Jn. 3:8-10; Rom. 6:14-22).
Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 426.

This moral change, in being unborn and “born again,” does not change man's constitution in any sense. The bodily members, soul passions, and spirit faculties are there just as they are after every change. They are merely brought under bondage to the spirit and nature of the devil by the moral fall when one is unborn, and they are brought back into freedom from sin and Satan and under the control of the Spirit and nature of God by the moral restoration when one is “born again.” This is all that takes place in either case. It can happen as many times as a man chooses and yields to either the devil or God to serve one or the other. Every time a moral restoration by the new birth is necessary, it can happen if a man will turn back to serve God. Every time a man is morally restored, he is under the possibility of a moral fall, as were Adam and Eve to begin with. God's plan is that man should be morally restored only once (Rom. 6:6-10), but if any man sins he has an advocate with the Father to be restored again (1 Jn. 2:1-2). To prove that men can be lost in sin, found again, and go through the same process many times, we submit the following facts in Scripture:
Finis J. Dake, God's Plan for Man, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2004), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 426.

I noticed these two things here seem to be direct contradictions with 2 Corinthians 5:17 (NKJV)
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

And to Hebrews 6:3-6 (NKJV)
3 And this we will do if God permits.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Can anyone explain why these are not contradicitons?

Dake then proceeded to list out people he said were saved like Peter. However Peter when he sinned could not have been saved yet because Jesus had not yet died to save him. And Simon was never saved nor does it say he lost his salvation only that he would repent of those things in his heart. Obviously not a new creation spoken about in 1 Cor 5:17

[branham1965]

HI REVED
YES WE DO KNOW SIMON MAGUS WAS SAVED.THE BIBLE TELLS US HE WAS.OR ITS ALL A LIE!!!!BUT HE HAD A WEAKNESS.AND SATAN HIT HIM THERE.PETER DEALT WITH HIM IN HIS ERROR!!!!!!SO WAS THE CORINTHIAN FORNICATOR.HE WAS SAVED BUT HE FELL PREY TO SATAN.HE WAS DEALT WITH BY PAUL HIMSELF!!!!!!!!!
IVE READ MORE COMMENTARIES ON HEBREWS 6 AND 10 THAN THERE ARE BUCKEYE NUTS IN OHIO!!!!
THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO TURN FROM THE CHRISTIAN SYSTEM OF SALVATION BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST AND HIS CROSS AND REJECT THE SACRIFICE OF JESUS FOR THEIR SIN SICK SOULS."NOT ORDINARY BACKSLIDERS" OR THOSE WHO HAVE ERRED FROM THE TRUTH ...JAMES SAYS THEY CAN BE RECOVERED SEE JAMES 5!!!!!!!!!!!!
MORE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN MISLED BY THESE TWO PASSAGES AND THEIR IMPROPER EXEGESIS THAN ALMOST ANYTHING BUT SAY OSAS OR THE ERRONEOUS TEACHING THAT WATER IMMERSION IS AN OPTION.
IM DIGGING LIKE NEVER BEFORE."IM NEVER WENT DOWN RAY...YOU NEVER KNOCKED ME DOWN".....ROBERT DENIRO IN RAGING BULL AS JAKE LAMOTTA TO SUGAR RAY ROBINSON.....
AGAPE AND PAX REVED....

The New Testament is full of examples of people falling away.some returned.some there is no record of them returning.

In Acts 8 Phillip preached to the Samaritans. v4 the Lord confirmed his Word and performed miracles and signs.great joy was in that city.a magician named Simon saw the real miracles and genuine wonders by Phillip.
"but when they believed Phillip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ they were being BAPTIZED both men and women alike.and even Simon himself believed and after being BAPTIZED he continued on with Phillip and as he observed the signs and great miracles taking place he was amazed." nasb 1977
it took the Apostles to come v 14 and lay hands on these new believers for the Holy Spirit .he offered them money so he could do what the Apostles were doing.Peter told him Repent of this wickedness of yours and pray the Lord if possible the intention of your heart may be forgiven you.for i see that you are in the gall of bitterness and the bondage of iniquity.
v24 Simon asked the Apostles for prayer.
The Corinthian fornicator 1 Cor 5 was in grave sin.he was turned over to Satan by the Apostle Paul.
He repented and was RESTORED.see Galatians 6:1"Brethren even if a man is caught in any trespass you who are spiritual RESTORE such a one in the spirit of gentleness each one looking to yourself lest you to bee tempted.bear one anothers burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ....
Paul told them in his second Epistle "for behold what earnestness this very thing ,this godly sorrow has produced in you :what vindication of yourselves,what indignation,what fear,what longing,what zeal what avenging of wrong! 2 Cor 7:11
a person can fall and be restored.

If you think about this think about Jesus being our intercessor, our covering.

If we are in Christ and we sin our sins are still under the blood of Jesus, God doesn't see them. If God did then God would be required to charge them to our account as unpaid.

But we know Jesus died for our sins, all our sins, past, present and yes future.

They are covered!

Now before anyone charges me with believing in Once Saved Always Saved let me say I do NOT!

Both Hebrew 6 and Hebrew 10 tells us that is possible to lose our salvation.

But those passages also say that if a person is saved and loses his salvation it is impossible for that person to ever be saved again.

Am I saying if we sin we should go on as if nothing happened? NO!

What I'm saying if we are in right relationship with Christ we should love Him and Trust Him enough to know our relationship will always exist.

If we wrong Jesus He doesn't stop being our brother but He can be hurt or disappointed in us and if we really respect Jesus we owe Him an apology. But like our natural brother and our spouses Jesus isn't a score keeper. So that when we apologize for offending him with our sin and apologizing Jesus doesn't say oh you missed one.

This whole concept of backslidding as commonly taught in the church where if you sin and die you might miss your salvation is without scriptural support.

Billy
We don't know if Simon was saved or not. It says he believed however there are a lot of people that believe and are not saved.
Secondly Peter doesn't tell him he lost his salvation and needs to repent to get it back. He says repent so God doesn't so thus and such.

We are not told if the man in 1 Cor 5 was saved or not. Apparently he wasn't because Paul says throw him out so he can be saved.

All these examples you cite are people thatprobably were not saved to begin with.
What do you do with Hebrews 6 and Hebrew 10?

[branham1965]

if you are right REVED every Christian on earth including YOU is hopelessly damned.you are doomed.

i can attest to the fact of what Reverend Dake has said in those posts.ive gotten off the tracks way off and had to come back.he is 100%% right.ive experienced it.

and so has everyone else who isnt a liar.

James said to save a soul from death and restore fallen ones James 5 and Paul said this in Galatians 6.

what you are attempting to say is unscriptural.

[Ironman]

Your good at it, I'll give you that. I never hijaked the thread??

You asked in the thread you accuse me of hijaking;

"Who in the New Testament that was a Christian did something worst than murder? In fact who is mentioned in the New Testament that had to seek forgiveness to regain their salvation after they were initially saved?

As far as I know there is not one recorded instance in the New Testament and after the Work on the cross of a Christian sinning and being told he has lost his salvation and to regain it he must confess it, repent of it. If you know of a scripture I sure would like to see it."

.

I tried my best to show you by providing not just one but quite a few. Here's your problem.

" . . . . . . . . Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God." (Matthew 22:29).

Taken from the book, Dakes Plan for Man.

Judas was once a saved man? He had the Holy Spirit and power like the other apostles and was a sucessfull preacher and healer like them (Matt. 10:1-20; Mark. 6:6-13). He had his name written in the book of life in Heaven as proved by Acts 1:20.

"For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take." (Acts 1:20). He fell from the apostleship by transgress: "That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.(Acts 1:25).

In the Scriptures, which you demand to see but have been blinded by the devil and untill now have not seen, we have statements that Judas was a man who was a "fimiliar friend" of Jesus Christ, who ate of His bread, which is an idiom of close friendship; "Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me." (Ps. 41:9). he was not an enemy of Christ, but an equal in grace, a guide, and a sweet acquaintance; " For it was not an enemy that reproached me; then I could have borne it: neither was it he that hated me that did magnify himself against me; then I would have hid myself from him: But it was thou, a man mine equal, my guide, and mine acquaintance." (Ps 55:12-13).

He was to have his habitation desolate and be blotted out of the book of the living "For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take." (Acts 1:20), and he was to have "another take his place" in the Christian ministry and in the kingship over oneof the tribes of Israel, "Let his days be few; and let another take his office." (Ps. 109:8).

These passages were fulfilled in Judas according to Matt. 26:24; John 13:8; Acts 1:16-25).
"The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born." (Matt.26:24), "I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me." (John 13:18),

And,

"Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus. For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry. Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood. For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take. Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection. And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place." (Acts 1:16-25).

In Mark 6:7-13 we read that the twelve, Judas Included, went "forth two by two . . . and preached that men should repent. And they Judas Included, cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick and healed them."
This proves that Judas was a divinely efficient man, a sucessfull preacher and endued with power to heal. If he was not a saved man and if he could have all these experiences and do thses miricles as a sinner, then it would seem that Christians who claim to be saved regardless of what they do should be able to do as much as Judas did. Also it would be going too far to accuse Jesus Christ of choosing an unsaved man to preach repentance and holiness, to heal the sick, to cast out devils, and to represent the Kingdom of God among men.

The Holy Spirit through Luke records that Judas "By Transgression Fell" (Acts 1:15-25). If men would be as anxious to believe the Holy Spirit as they are to believe men, and if they would be as anxious to believe all Scriptures as they claim to believe somethey would show some consistency and honesty regarding the whole Word of God. Judas not only had a moral fall but sin caused it. He was not allways a "devil" and a "thief." He became both after he had been saved for some time. His weakness was the love of money and this caused his fall, "This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein." (John 12:6), "And they were glad, and covenanted to give him money." (Luke 22:5). He had seen Christ escape many timesand he no doubt thought the Lord would escape again and he would be the richer. it was not untill the end of Christs ministry that Judas began to pilfer and to grow cold in his love of Christ. At the last supper he became united with the devil. He broke with Christ and saught opportunity to betray Him.

Judas was sorry afterwards for his betrayal "Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that. Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that." (Matt. 27:3-5). He could have been forgiven as much as any of the others who cursed, denied Christ, and fled like cowards in the test. But being of a disposition to do so, he brooded over his fall and yielded to temptation to commit suicide. Judas is a specific exampleof a New testament man who was once saved and in God's favour and grace but who by transgression fell, and because of his unrepented sin went to hell. Jesus Himself acknowledged to the Father that of those whom the Father had given Him, Judas was the only one whom He had "LOST."

JESUS PRAYED THIS TO THE FATHER BEFORE HE WAS ARRESTED IN THE GARDEN AND BEFORE HE DIED ON THE CROSS.


"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." (John 17:12).

Christ could not have lost Judas if He never had him to lose. Jesus also testified that to everyone including Judas, that the Father had given Him, He had given ETERNAL LIFE,

"As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him." (John 17:2). Judas had this eternal life as much as the others but he became "lost" later and "by transgression fell" (Acts 1:25).

There are other such examples of saved people loosing their salvation, their eternal life through unrepented sin.