Dake Bible Discussion BoardMisrepresenting Paul?

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Justaned
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Re: Misrepresenting Paul?

Post by Justaned » Sun May 05, 2013 5:11 pm

fatherfisher wrote:Zionist Jews of today who persist in rejecting Christ have no more claim to the land of Palestine than those who were expelled from it in 70 AD. See Ezekiel 21:27 which is still unfulfilled for the Jews. They are still not a nation in the eyes of God, and will not be until the return of Jesus.
I believe when we talk of End Times and Israel this statement defines the situation the best. This is the exact reason I see a lot of End Times prophecy hinged on the Jews return to Israel as a lot of nonsense. Along with another fact that is often overlooked. There has always been a Jewish presence in Israel even after 70 AD, so the Jews didn't return on some particular date they simply continued what they have been during for the last 2000 years.



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dolph
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Re: Misrepresenting Paul?

Post by dolph » Sun May 05, 2013 5:52 pm

Justaned wrote:
fatherfisher wrote:Zionist Jews of today who persist in rejecting Christ have no more claim to the land of Palestine than those who were expelled from it in 70 AD. See Ezekiel 21:27 which is still unfulfilled for the Jews. They are still not a nation in the eyes of God, and will not be until the return of Jesus.
I believe when we talk of End Times and Israel this statement defines the situation the best. This is the exact reason I see a lot of End Times prophecy hinged on the Jews return to Israel as a lot of nonsense. Along with another fact that is often overlooked. There has always been a Jewish presence in Israel even after 70 AD, so the Jews didn't return on some particular date they simply continued what they have been during for the last 2000 years.

Ed, you're WAY off base again. The Jews return to Palestine in the last century was the greatest miracle since Christ's resurrection. If you can't comprehend this you are in the wrong line of work. Scripture says they won't be saved until they see the holes in Christ's side and hands, so it is understood that they would enter the land before they got saved. Even the 144,000, manchild, isn't saved/sealed until the middle of the lesser tribulation.



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Re: Misrepresenting Paul?

Post by macca » Mon May 06, 2013 12:12 am

And all those would be prophets swinging off the fig tree the last 64 years need their head read. +hammer
macca



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branham1965
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Re: Misrepresenting Paul?

Post by branham1965 » Mon May 06, 2013 3:06 am

Friend,
If you are inferring God's everlasting eternal Judgement ends on the lost :neutral: :neutral: :neutral:
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
fatherfisher wrote:In Greek probably the strongest single reference to this fact is found in Matthew 25:46 where Jesus himself says the righteous will go into "eternal" life and the cursed will go into "eternal" punishment ("everlasting" in the KJV) and the same Greek word is used for both. There are no stronger words in the Greek language to express the concept of eternity than are used here. And Jesus could hardly mean eternity for one group, but something different for the other, in the same breath.
FatherFisher,

Do you have any thoughts on Robert Young's translation of this verse? Especially, his use of "age-during" in place of "everlasting"?
  • Matthew 25:46 YLT
    • And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.
Please, share your thoughts.

Thank you.



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dolph
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Re: Misrepresenting Paul?

Post by dolph » Mon May 06, 2013 9:16 am

macca wrote:And all those would be prophets swinging off the fig tree the last 64 years need their head read. +hammer
macca
"That generation", 70 years, is still alive.



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Justaned
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Re: Misrepresenting Paul?

Post by Justaned » Mon May 06, 2013 10:38 am

dolph wrote:
Justaned wrote:
fatherfisher wrote:Zionist Jews of today who persist in rejecting Christ have no more claim to the land of Palestine than those who were expelled from it in 70 AD. See Ezekiel 21:27 which is still unfulfilled for the Jews. They are still not a nation in the eyes of God, and will not be until the return of Jesus.
I believe when we talk of End Times and Israel this statement defines the situation the best. This is the exact reason I see a lot of End Times prophecy hinged on the Jews return to Israel as a lot of nonsense. Along with another fact that is often overlooked. There has always been a Jewish presence in Israel even after 70 AD, so the Jews didn't return on some particular date they simply continued what they have been during for the last 2000 years.

Ed, you're WAY off base again. The Jews return to Palestine in the last century was the greatest miracle since Christ's resurrection. If you can't comprehend this you are in the wrong line of work. Scripture says they won't be saved until they see the holes in Christ's side and hands, so it is understood that they would enter the land before they got saved. Even the 144,000, manchild, isn't saved/sealed until the middle of the lesser tribulation.
Why is it a miracle? The Jews were persecuted by Germany and the world refused to help. In fact many times ships of Jews were sent back to Germany because no one would believed they were in actual danger.

Also what is rarely if ever mentioned is Russia was killing them off in hoards too. Commie Russia killed nearly as many Jews as Hitler did

So after the war you have a ton of displaced Jews and the realities of the concentration camps staring at you. What do you do? You do what the world did. To make retribution you help them get their back to Israel.

What is a miracle is any were alive to travel back.

Look at the Jews in countries that did not persecute them, how many have left to go back to Israel? Very few. Only those from Europe that lost everything and had nothing to lose.



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Re: Misrepresenting Paul?

Post by macca » Mon May 06, 2013 11:13 am

dolph wrote:
macca wrote:And all those would be prophets swinging off the fig tree the last 64 years need their head read. +hammer
macca
"That generation", 70 years, is still alive.


I have watched that generation streach from 25 years to your 70
dolph.
It will get to a millinium before they give up.



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Re: Misrepresenting Paul?

Post by Spiritblade Disciple » Mon May 06, 2013 5:24 pm

branham1965 wrote:
Spiritblade Disciple wrote:
fatherfisher wrote:In Greek probably the strongest single reference to this fact is found in Matthew 25:46 where Jesus himself says the righteous will go into "eternal" life and the cursed will go into "eternal" punishment ("everlasting" in the KJV) and the same Greek word is used for both. There are no stronger words in the Greek language to express the concept of eternity than are used here. And Jesus could hardly mean eternity for one group, but something different for the other, in the same breath.
FatherFisher,

Do you have any thoughts on Robert Young's translation of this verse? Especially, his use of "age-during" in place of "everlasting"?
  • Matthew 25:46 YLT
    • And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.
Please, share your thoughts.

Thank you.
Friend,
If you are inferring God's everlasting eternal Judgement ends on the lost :neutral: :neutral: :neutral:
Not inferring anything, Billy.

FatherFisher is our resident expert in Greek.

I do not understand why Robert Young chose to translate it as "age-during" instead of "everlasting" or "eternal."

To me, even the term "age-during" is strange. Does it mean "during the age," "enduring the ages," or something else?

I was hoping that FatherFisher might be able to provide some insight.



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dolph
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Re: Misrepresenting Paul?

Post by dolph » Mon May 06, 2013 6:20 pm

macca wrote:
dolph wrote:
macca wrote:And all those would be prophets swinging off the fig tree the last 64 years need their head read. +hammer
macca
"That generation", 70 years, is still alive.


I have watched that generation streach from 25 years to your 70
dolph.
It will get to a millinium before they give up.
Macca, they scoffed at Christ's first advent too. You should be looking for that blessed hope.



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dolph
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Re: Misrepresenting Paul?

Post by dolph » Mon May 06, 2013 6:30 pm

Justaned wrote:
dolph wrote:
Justaned wrote:
fatherfisher wrote:Zionist Jews of today who persist in rejecting Christ have no more claim to the land of Palestine than those who were expelled from it in 70 AD. See Ezekiel 21:27 which is still unfulfilled for the Jews. They are still not a nation in the eyes of God, and will not be until the return of Jesus.
I believe when we talk of End Times and Israel this statement defines the situation the best. This is the exact reason I see a lot of End Times prophecy hinged on the Jews return to Israel as a lot of nonsense. Along with another fact that is often overlooked. There has always been a Jewish presence in Israel even after 70 AD, so the Jews didn't return on some particular date they simply continued what they have been during for the last 2000 years.

Ed, you're WAY off base again. The Jews return to Palestine in the last century was the greatest miracle since Christ's resurrection. If you can't comprehend this you are in the wrong line of work. Scripture says they won't be saved until they see the holes in Christ's side and hands, so it is understood that they would enter the land before they got saved. Even the 144,000, manchild, isn't saved/sealed until the middle of the lesser tribulation.
Why is it a miracle? The Jews were persecuted by Germany and the world refused to help. In fact many times ships of Jews were sent back to Germany because no one would believed they were in actual danger.

Also what is rarely if ever mentioned is Russia was killing them off in hoards too. Commie Russia killed nearly as many Jews as Hitler did

So after the war you have a ton of displaced Jews and the realities of the concentration camps staring at you. What do you do? You do what the world did. To make retribution you help them get their back to Israel.

What is a miracle is any were alive to travel back.

Look at the Jews in countries that did not persecute them, how many have left to go back to Israel? Very few. Only those from Europe that lost everything and had nothing to lose.

Eddddddddddd, for any people to keep their identity for 100 years, much less 2,000 years without a country is unheard of. It took the American Indians less than 100 years to assimilate and they hadn't lost their land and temple as the Jews experienced. This sermon should be preached once a month in every church because, TO TOP THINGS OFF, it is fulfilled Bible prophesy, Isa. 11:11. These facts alone are enough to certify that the Bible's true.



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