Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ BELIVING JEWS FUTURE

[Ray]

Scofield believed that believing Jews were an earthly people with earthly promises. The Jews who accept Christ AFTER His second advent, when they see the holes in His side and hands, will rule on earth with Him but won't have the glorified bodies that the Church is promised. These Jews will resume their prophesied future just as if the Jews at Christ's time had accepted their Messiah. They will rule the nations and evangelize the world, as I understand things with Dr.Dake's help.

The believers since righteous Abel are now in Heaven and part of the Bride of Christ. But what about the Jews currently in Heaven? Will they receive glorified bodies or return to earth and join the earthly Jews with a carnal body? Many Old Testament Jews believed in a resurrection but knew little about being born again and becoming children of God with glorified bodies,

One can also make the case that the Jews in Jerusalem after the crucifixion had a different Gospel than "Paul's gospel of grace". They had the gospel of the kingdom which was about the earthly kingdom they expected when their Messiah arrived. At the Jerusalem Council 50 A.D. it was agreed that the Jerusalem apostles would stay in Jerusalem and minister to the Jews and that Paul, Barnabas and others with the Gospel of Grace would go to the heathen.

Brother Dolph,
How much do you really know about Cyrus Scofield ?

As he is one of the pioneers of Bible Eschatology taught in The United States as You believe it.

[branham1965]

YOU SAID IT EXACTLY AS IT IS.MR.SCOFIELD SAID IT.
THE EARLY FATHERS RIGHT AFTER THE APOSTLES KNEW NOTHING OF THAT STUFF DOLPH.THESE WERE MEN TAUGHT DIRECTLY BY APOSTLES OR 2ND GENERATION DISCIPLES ETC.AND THEIR WRITINGS AGREE 100%% WITH THE NEW TESTAMENT.

SAINT PAUL PREACHED THE SAME EXACT THE SAME EXACT GOSPEL = READ THE EPISTLES.....TO JEW AND GENTILE GAL 3:26-27. I KNOW SOME LOVE TO CUDDLE WITH ALL THAT DISPENSATIONAL WE MUST RECIEVE INWARD CIRCUMCISION BY THE LORD JESUS CHRIST WHEN WE ARE BORN AGAIN BY HIS BLOOD 1 JOHN 5:8;ROMANS 2:28-29
WHETHER JEW GREEK ITALIAN RUSSIAN GERMAN OR AUSTRALIAN. THE EPISTLES PROVE MR.BULLINGER AND HIS COHORTS WRONG. ROMANS??? CORINTHIANS ive been there its not Jewish its 100%%% Greek!!!!GALATIA,EPHESUS,THESSALONICA,COLOSSAE,THE SO CALLED GOSPEL TO THE GENTILES IS THE SAME EXACT MESSAGE TO THE JEWS!!!REPENT YE AND BELIEVE THE GOSPEL OF THE KING AND HIS KINGDOM!!!!BE IMMERSED IN THE NAME OF GOD THE FATHER,SON AND HOLY SPIRIT.BE FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT.BECOME A CITIZEN ON THE KINGDOM.Matthew 28:18-20 AND ANYONE TELLING US OTHER WISE IS A FALSE TEACHER!!UNDER THE ANATHEMA OF HEAVEN!!!!!!!!GAL 1:8-9.

Scofield believed that believing Jews were an earthly people with earthly promises. The Jews who accept Christ AFTER His second advent, when they see the holes in His side and hands, will rule on earth with Him but won't have the glorified bodies that the Church is promised. These Jews will resume their prophesied future just as if the Jews at Christ's time had accepted their Messiah. They will rule the nations and evangelize the world, as I understand things with Dr.Dake's help.

The believers since righteous Abel are now in Heaven and part of the Bride of Christ. But what about the Jews currently in Heaven? Will they receive glorified bodies or return to earth and join the earthly Jews with a carnal body? Many Old Testament Jews believed in a resurrection but knew little about being born again and becoming children of God with glorified bodies,

One can also make the case that the Jews in Jerusalem after the crucifixion had a different Gospel than "Paul's gospel of grace". They had the gospel of the kingdom which was about the earthly kingdom they expected when their Messiah arrived. At the Jerusalem Council 50 A.D. it was agreed that the Jerusalem apostles would stay in Jerusalem and minister to the Jews and that Paul, Barnabas and others with the Gospel of Grace would go to the heathen.

[Ray]

Dolph,
NOWHERE, in ALL OF SCRIPTURE is a DIFFERENT BODY given to the Jews from that which is given to the Gentiles to go through Eternity with.No matter in what aeon they are Saved in.

As there was a seperation of the Jews from the Gentiles during the time of The Old Covenant, Do you fail to see this seperation is Clearly done away with in the time of The New Covenant ?

The Apostle Paul again and again in his epistles lets the reader know that there is now NO DIFFERENCE in Jew or Gentile.

A mystery ? Yes.

As the Difference of Jew and Gentile was so instilled in the Jewish people under the Old Covenant. Much of the Jewish People didn't want the Gentiles to be what they had become. The People of The Living GOD.

Why must Dispensationalist Build up the wall of partition between Jew and Gentile that was clearly Torn Down.

JESUS has made Jew and Gentile, both one, and had broken down the middle wall of partition between us;


NOWHERE in ALL OF SCRIPTURE is a DIFFERENT type of Salvation with Different rewards to be given unto the Jews Seperate from the Gentiles.

AGAIN, NOWHERE in ALL OF SCRIPTURE is a DIFFERENT BODY given to the Jews from that which is given to the Gentiles to go through Eternity with.No matter in what aeon they are Saved in.


Eph 2:
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

[Justaned]

Not sure what that question was Dolph.

If you are asking about Jews in Heaven versus Jews still living and where they spend the Millennium, no one can answer since scripture does not disclose it.

In fact no one can satisfactorily answer the question,'who will being living on the earth during the millennium?' Scripture simply doesn't say and it appears all identified groups "Saved" and "those that took the mark" will not be there.

And that leaves?

We don't know since it scripture says you will need to the mark to live and if you don't take the mark you will be killed. And we know those that took the mark are condemned.

[titus213]

According to Daniel 12.1-2 the Jews whose names are written in the book will be part of the first resurrection, so would receive glorified bodies just as Gentiles will at that time. This would include Daniel himself (v.13).

[branham1965]

He got his material from J.N.Darby .A Minister who received the revelations of the various dispensations.There was allegedly a dream involved.
He traveled all over selling this to Believers.
There was great excitement over the Coming of the Lord.There were Revivals taking place.Thomas and Alexander Campbell came from Ireland and began their "restoration" movement.This movement has the same exact plan of salvation as Mormonism.Sydney Rigdon once with Alexander Campbell right here in Ohio ...joined Peepstone Joseph Smith and sold him the Campbell plan.Joe didnt care he was too busy ..with other matters.
William Miller had the great disapointment of 1844.

Darby formed the Plymouth Brethren.
The Bible Student movement began in the mid 1800's with men like J.C.Grew and George Stetson and Henry Storrs trying like others to go back to the Bible for faith and practice.Charles Russell began his group in Pittsburgh later moved to Brooklyn N.Y. and wrote extensively.He was in all the major newspapers.He was said to have turned the hose on hell.
Charts were the rave.The groups all had charts of Daniels Visions and the Revelation.Russell's "chart of the ages"was quite popular even incorporating the Great Pyramid of Giza into his theology.Pyramidology was big then.Amazingly William Branham got into some of that stuff no eternal punishment,the Great Pyramid being Gods witness in stone and he was taken home before he waded too far.
Anyway Darbys teachings got to Cyrus I.Scofield.He put them in his Bible.And the rest is...history.

Scofield believed that believing Jews were an earthly people with earthly promises. The Jews who accept Christ AFTER His second advent, when they see the holes in His side and hands, will rule on earth with Him but won't have the glorified bodies that the Church is promised. These Jews will resume their prophesied future just as if the Jews at Christ's time had accepted their Messiah. They will rule the nations and evangelize the world, as I understand things with Dr.Dake's help.

The believers since righteous Abel are now in Heaven and part of the Bride of Christ. But what about the Jews currently in Heaven? Will they receive glorified bodies or return to earth and join the earthly Jews with a carnal body? Many Old Testament Jews believed in a resurrection but knew little about being born again and becoming children of God with glorified bodies,

One can also make the case that the Jews in Jerusalem after the crucifixion had a different Gospel than "Paul's gospel of grace". They had the gospel of the kingdom which was about the earthly kingdom they expected when their Messiah arrived. At the Jerusalem Council 50 A.D. it was agreed that the Jerusalem apostles would stay in Jerusalem and minister to the Jews and that Paul, Barnabas and others with the Gospel of Grace would go to the heathen.

Brother Dolph,
How much do you really know about Cyrus Scofield ?

As he is one of the pioneers of Bible Eschatology taught in The United States as You believe it.

[Justaned]

Not sure what that question was Dolph.

If you are asking about Jews in Heaven versus Jews still living and where they spend the Millennium, no one can answer since scripture does not disclose it.

In fact no one can satisfactorily answer the question,'who will being living on the earth during the millennium?' Scripture simply doesn't say and it appears all identified groups "Saved" and "those that took the mark" will not be there.

And that leaves?

We don't know since it scripture says you will need to the mark to live and if you don't take the mark you will be killed. And we know those that took the mark are condemned.

In the short period of 3 1/2 years most of the world will not be asked to take the mark, probably only those of the the anti-Christ's kingdom that will probably consist of the territory once occupied by Alexander the Great. Dake calls it Revised Grecia.

So you are saying if someone misses the rapture as you view it and lives in say south america they have nothing to sweat from the antichrist? That the whole world will not be caught up in the deception of Satan and the Antichrist will only be worshipped in the Middle East? Are you saying that the Antichrist's loyalist will only exist in the Middle East?

[titus213]

How much do you really know about Cyrus Scofield ?

But . . . whether we're talking about Scofield, Darby, or Dake for that matter . . . their personal history may be interesting to read about, but it has no bearing on the validity of their teachings unless we believe in imputing guilt by association. The validity of their teachings must depend on whether or not what they taught is what the Bible teaches.

[Justaned]

He got his material from J.N.Darby .A Minister who received the revelations of the various dispensations.There was allegedly a dream involved.
He traveled all over selling this to Believers.
There was great excitement over the Coming of the Lord.There were Revivals taking place.Thomas and Alexander Campbell came from Ireland and began their "restoration" movement.This movement has the same exact plan of salvation as Mormonism.Sydney Rigdon once with Alexander Campbell right here in Ohio ...joined Peepstone Joseph Smith and sold him the Campbell plan.Joe didnt care he was too busy ..with other matters.
William Miller had the great disapointment of 1844.

Darby formed the Plymouth Brethren.
The Bible Student movement began in the mid 1800's with men like J.C.Grew and George Stetson and Henry Storrs trying like others to go back to the Bible for faith and practice.Charles Russell began his group in Pittsburgh later moved to Brooklyn N.Y. and wrote extensively.He was in all the major newspapers.He was said to have turned the hose on hell.
Charts were the rave.The groups all had charts of Daniels Visions and the Revelation.Russell's "chart of the ages"was quite popular even incorporating the Great Pyramid of Giza into his theology.Pyramidology was big then.Amazingly William Branham got into some of that stuff no eternal punishment,the Great Pyramid being Gods witness in stone and he was taken home before he waded too far.
Anyway Darbys teachings got to Cyrus I.Scofield.He put them in his Bible.And the rest is...history.

Scofield believed that believing Jews were an earthly people with earthly promises. The Jews who accept Christ AFTER His second advent, when they see the holes in His side and hands, will rule on earth with Him but won't have the glorified bodies that the Church is promised. These Jews will resume their prophesied future just as if the Jews at Christ's time had accepted their Messiah. They will rule the nations and evangelize the world, as I understand things with Dr.Dake's help.

The believers since righteous Abel are now in Heaven and part of the Bride of Christ. But what about the Jews currently in Heaven? Will they receive glorified bodies or return to earth and join the earthly Jews with a carnal body? Many Old Testament Jews believed in a resurrection but knew little about being born again and becoming children of God with glorified bodies,

One can also make the case that the Jews in Jerusalem after the crucifixion had a different Gospel than "Paul's gospel of grace". They had the gospel of the kingdom which was about the earthly kingdom they expected when their Messiah arrived. At the Jerusalem Council 50 A.D. it was agreed that the Jerusalem apostles would stay in Jerusalem and minister to the Jews and that Paul, Barnabas and others with the Gospel of Grace would go to the heathen.

Brother Dolph,
How much do you really know about Cyrus Scofield ?

As he is one of the pioneers of Bible Eschatology taught in The United States as You believe it.

One point Billy made when said this came from Darby and that a dream was involved. There was a dream but it was a dream from a young woman with questionable religious background. I don't think anyone ever confirmed whether the dream was manifested by God or if it was from the adversary.

Truth idea and concept birthed by the dream made logical sense to man and man accepted it. However experience gleaned from scripture should tell us God's ways rarely make logical sense to man until after man sees how God made it work out.

[branham1965]

RAY,
I SAY THIS WITH SOME TREPIDATION.
BUT IVE BEEN STUDYING ALOT.AND I AGREE WITH YOU.
JOHN 10:16.HE BRINGS THE OTHER SHEEP THE GENTILES INTO THE SAME FOLD.

Dolph,
NOWHERE, in ALL OF SCRIPTURE is a DIFFERENT BODY given to the Jews from that which is given to the Gentiles to go through Eternity with.No matter in what aeon they are Saved in.

As there was a seperation of the Jews from the Gentiles during the time of The Old Covenant, Do you fail to see this seperation is Clearly done away with in the time of The New Covenant ?

The Apostle Paul again and again in his epistles lets the reader know that there is now NO DIFFERENCE in Jew or Gentile.

A mystery ? Yes.

As the Difference of Jew and Gentile was so instilled in the Jewish people under the Old Covenant. Much of the Jewish People didn't want the Gentiles to be what they had become. The People of The Living GOD.

Why must Dispensationalist Build up the wall of partition between Jew and Gentile that was clearly Torn Down.

JESUS has made Jew and Gentile, both one, and had broken down the middle wall of partition between us;


NOWHERE in ALL OF SCRIPTURE is a DIFFERENT type of Salvation with Different rewards to be given unto the Jews Seperate from the Gentiles.

AGAIN, NOWHERE in ALL OF SCRIPTURE is a DIFFERENT BODY given to the Jews from that which is given to the Gentiles to go through Eternity with.No matter in what aeon they are Saved in.


Eph 2:
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: