Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ When Christians Die of Cancer

[DeafManHealing]

Interesting to read the responses. Something caught my eye. Recreative miracle ?

From my understanding of what the audiologist said is that I have no hair inside my ears and the doctor said I would be eligible for cochlear implant surgery.

I don't want to go through the pain of surgery as I have asthma/COPD and don't like taking pain medication because it slows my breathing a lot.

Would my ears be called a Recreative miracle ?

[macca]

Macca, I have a question for you. If you prayed & fasted for an entire veteran's hospital full of wounded soldiers with missing limbs. Are they going to be healed ?

What about praying & fasting for the school for the blind & deaf to be emptied ?

At the school for the deaf, Every year, there are about 3 to 5 Deaf students or Deaf staff getting healed out of a school of maybe 500 to the biggest Deaf schools holding 1,500 students.

I may not have the correct understanding of healing when it comes to the Bible but this I do know is that Miracles do happen.

My, my, this has been an interesting discussion. I'm feeling now is a good time to jump in. Please note, "most" of what I am about to post is my OPINION. Just opinion. I just witnessed one of my members lose her earthly life to cancer so this is an emotional topic for me. I watched her die with the most beautiful smile on her face and her face stayed that way after she passed. It really was awesome to witness.

Anyways, I'm not sure everyone understands what the phrase "thorn in the flesh" means. Please try and forget what you were taught and truly search for the truth. The best 5 minute teaching on it was done by Bill Johnson and Randy Clark. Google it and find the video. Basically, all references in OT are speaking of the "thorn in the flesh" as attacks by people. Read 2 Cor 12:10 for what I believe is the answer to what it is. I believe it refers to attacks by people and in NOT a disease.

Please read Matt 13:57-58. Unbelief does have a part to play in God's "effectiveness."
Please read Mark 8:22-5. Even Jesus touched this blind man twice before he got his 100% healing.

Jesus' purpose was to preach the good news and destroy the works of the devil. I know His will as Jesus is perfect theology. He was obeying His Father so by Jesus' actions we can know Father's will.

I have seen more than one person healed only to lose their healing a week later up to several months down the road. In my opinion, their words and actions had something to do with their losing their healing. In other words, their lack of faith. One particular person with cancer had it for the third time. He told us to not pray for his healing as he was tired and ready to go home. One lady, by lab tests results, was show in remission but she decided to go to another Dr. for verification. Cancer came back in her body within a month. I cannot explain everyone's actions. I don't know their heart. They may be claiming one thing but deep down believing another....

From watching and participating in several people's death to cancer, I believe many get so tired of fighting that they decide it's time to die. I've seen people with cancer have their countenances change in a matter of days. It's like you can tell they have "given up" and I don't mean that in a negative way. I've left rooms knowing in my spirit they had changed their minds about living and were ready to die. Understand, I am only making observations. I truly hope this is not coming across as insensitive with me blaming everyone's sickness and disease on their lack of faith. I AM NOT saying that. We all have choices to makes. Some people's faith may be in their afterlife and not in their healing. That doesn't make them "bad" or "weak" people. I've never had cancer (that I know of) and I don't know what goes through a persons mind. Never the less, I know God's will is for all of us to be healed and walk in divine health.

It is hard to get around Mark 11:22-26.

Thankyou for posting Gebo..

[Justaned]

[quote="Gebo]Anyways, I'm not sure everyone understands what the phrase "thorn in the flesh" means. Please try and forget what you were taught and truly search for the truth. The best 5 minute teaching on it was done by Bill Johnson and Randy Clark. Google it and find the video. Basically, all references in OT are speaking of the "thorn in the flesh" as attacks by people. Read 2 Cor 12:10 for what I believe is the answer to what it is. I believe it refers to attacks by people and in NOT a disease.

[/quote]

I don't know what Bill Johnson or Randy Clark taught but the term "Thorn in the Flesh" only occurs one time in 2 Cor 12:10. The term "Messenger of Satan" only occurs one time also in 2 Cor 12:17.

We know Paul had failing eyesight he mentions it a couple of times. We also know he dealt with a physical infirmity Paul also mentions that fact.

I know what I believe, but if it makes your faith stronger to believe otherwise praise God.

[Gebo]

The OT "Thorn in the Flesh" references I'm referring to are Numbers 33:55 and Judges 2:3. Specifically stated as "thorns in your sides."

Also, it is hard to ignore the phrase "messenger of satan." The Greek word translated as messenger always refers to someone who is sent and denotes a being.

This same word for messenger here is translated in other verses of the New Testament as "angel." Angels are created beings with personalites. Satan's messengers would his "angels."

Paul's thorn in the flesh was a wicked spirit or angel sent by Satan to buffet him. And that's my story and I'm sticking to it. I don't want to weaken my faith or my responsibility to believe.

[branham1965]

i was not getting on you friend...

I did not blast anybody's faith, what I've blasted was the wrong mindset and people who are telling us, God is a vengeful person, exploiting his children even if Jesus shows us differently.

If a man cannot explain somebody's premature death, let him shut up instead of blaming God or His insufficient promises.

We must learn how to use what's in us. The greatest gift from God. Holy Spirit.

Let's not mark devil or sickness as God's agents.

Blessings

[Justaned]

The OT "Thorn in the Flesh" references I'm referring to are Numbers 33:55 and Judges 2:3. Specifically stated as "thorns in your sides."

Also, it is hard to ignore the phrase "messenger of satan." The Greek word translated as messenger always refers to someone who is sent and denotes a being.

This same word for messenger here is translated in other verses of the New Testament as "angel." Angels are created beings with personalites. Satan's messengers would his "angels."

Paul's thorn in the flesh was a wicked spirit or angel sent by Satan to buffet him. And that's my story and I'm sticking to it. I don't want to weaken my faith or my responsibility to believe.

Whatever works for you.

[graceforme]

Good words. Even Paul asked for the "thorn" to be removed - he prayed that way several times. God's answer? "My grace is sufficient for thee." There will always be those who will not receive an earthly healing. Just as Jesus said "The poor will always be with us", disease will always be with us - here on earth. But, we should be trusting that God always has a plan for our life, regardless of the physical infirmities we have to deal with. And God's plans are always perfect.

Paul's thorn, Graceforme, you equate Paul's thorn with sickness and disease.....

But Paul calls it "The messenger of Satan" to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 2 cor. 12:7; it was an angel of satan that followed Paul around and buffeted him when he was tempted to exalt himself. Paul lists these buffets in 2 cor. 11: 23-27; sickness and disease is not mentioned by Paul anywhere.

Do you think God would have respect of persons as far as Paul is concerned?

In Acts 10:38; How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power: Who went about DOING GOOD, AND HEALING ALL THAT WERE OPPRESSED OF THE DEVIL; FOR GOD WAS WITH HIM.

Jesus healed ALL that were oppressed of the devil so what makes you think Paul is any different from the All?

No where in the NT was anyone turned away from getting their healing or deliverance when they asked for it.

If you are going to use Paul's thorn as an excuse for your unbelief as far as healing goes, then where are your abundance of revelations, where are your Nt books that make up most of the nt?????


then at the end of your statement you put all the blame over onto God by stating "and God's plans are always perfect" so by this i am led to believe sickness comes from God?????

macca

Wow! You sure read a lot between the lines - mostly what is not here. Where did I say that I did not believe in healing? Apparently you did not read my original post in this thread. If you're going to quote me, please do it correctly. I do NOT blame God for anything. Again, do not quote me if you can't quote correctly, please. God has a plan for everyone's life, and His plan can be carried out perfectly, regardless of the situation we find ourselves in during our life. If you look at how many people have overcome serious adversity to proclaim the Gospel and lead others to Christ, it is clear that God's plan for their life has been fulfilled. Roman 8:28 (and I quote correctly) "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose." The first person that comes to my mind in Joni Eriksan Tada (spelling?) Look at the ministry that has grown in her life, in spite of the devastating circumstances of her life? Joyce Meyer grew up being sexually abused by her father. Look at the ministry that has grown in her life. And there are many others. There are different healings - physical and spiritual - that we may experience. And I stand by my statement - Can God heal? You bet! Does He heal everyone? NO! And we will never know the reason - we can only place our faith in the knowledge that all children of God will be perfectly healed in glory.

Many blessings to you.

[tomas555]

Weakness does not equals sickness all the times.
When you get stoned, hit in the head, there might be some eyesightT interference.
These so called experts are only looking to deny divine healing or deny the word ALL from it.
Has any of you, sickness supporters checked those passagee in Dake bible?

There is no point for this topic at all.

Check Wommack's book You Already Got It or accompanying free teaching ob his web.
Check Wigglesworth and John G. Lake and be advised.


Stop looking for angry father letting his children suffer. He pur self healing features in your body, it would be crazy to say healing is not His will. It is more, it is a design.

[macca]

Good words. Even Paul asked for the "thorn" to be removed - he prayed that way several times. God's answer? "My grace is sufficient for thee." There will always be those who will not receive an earthly healing. Just as Jesus said "The poor will always be with us", disease will always be with us - here on earth. But, we should be trusting that God always has a plan for our life, regardless of the physical infirmities we have to deal with. And God's plans are always perfect.

Paul's thorn, Graceforme, you equate Paul's thorn with sickness and disease.....

But Paul calls it "The messenger of Satan" to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 2 cor. 12:7; it was an angel of satan that followed Paul around and buffeted him when he was tempted to exalt himself. Paul lists these buffets in 2 cor. 11: 23-27; sickness and disease is not mentioned by Paul anywhere.

Do you think God would have respect of persons as far as Paul is concerned?

In Acts 10:38; How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power: Who went about DOING GOOD, AND HEALING ALL THAT WERE OPPRESSED OF THE DEVIL; FOR GOD WAS WITH HIM.

Jesus healed ALL that were oppressed of the devil so what makes you think Paul is any different from the All?

No where in the NT was anyone turned away from getting their healing or deliverance when they asked for it.

If you are going to use Paul's thorn as an excuse for your unbelief as far as healing goes, then where are your abundance of revelations, where are your Nt books that make up most of the nt?????


then at the end of your statement you put all the blame over onto God by stating "and God's plans are always perfect" so by this i am led to believe sickness comes from God?????

macca

Wow! You sure read a lot between the lines - mostly what is not here. Where did I say that I did not believe in healing? Apparently you did not read my original post in this thread. If you're going to quote me, please do it correctly. I do NOT blame God for anything. Again, do not quote me if you can't quote correctly, please. God has a plan for everyone's life, and His plan can be carried out perfectly, regardless of the situation we find ourselves in during our life. If you look at how many people have overcome serious adversity to proclaim the Gospel and lead others to Christ, it is clear that God's plan for their life has been fulfilled. Roman 8:28 (and I quote correctly) "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose." The first person that comes to my mind in Joni Eriksan Tada (spelling?) Look at the ministry that has grown in her life, in spite of the devastating circumstances of her life? Joyce Meyer grew up being sexually abused by her father. Look at the ministry that has grown in her life. And there are many others. There are different healings - physical and spiritual - that we may experience. And I stand by my statement - Can God heal? You bet! Does He heal everyone? NO! And we will never know the reason - we can only place our faith in the knowledge that all children of God will be perfectly healed in glory.

Many blessings to you.

Why would we need to be healed in glory? what sickness is in heaven? i guess that "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven" means that to you people in heaven must have to suffer as they do on earth and there must be others up there that God wants to be an example to others of His grace and stay tormented to show His glory for all to see....

no wonder people don't want anything to do with churches if thats all you can offer them.

macca

[graceforme]

Good words. Even Paul asked for the "thorn" to be removed - he prayed that way several times. God's answer? "My grace is sufficient for thee." There will always be those who will not receive an earthly healing. Just as Jesus said "The poor will always be with us", disease will always be with us - here on earth. But, we should be trusting that God always has a plan for our life, regardless of the physical infirmities we have to deal with. And God's plans are always perfect.

Paul's thorn, Graceforme, you equate Paul's thorn with sickness and disease.....

But Paul calls it "The messenger of Satan" to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 2 cor. 12:7; it was an angel of satan that followed Paul around and buffeted him when he was tempted to exalt himself. Paul lists these buffets in 2 cor. 11: 23-27; sickness and disease is not mentioned by Paul anywhere.

Do you think God would have respect of persons as far as Paul is concerned?

In Acts 10:38; How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power: Who went about DOING GOOD, AND HEALING ALL THAT WERE OPPRESSED OF THE DEVIL; FOR GOD WAS WITH HIM.

Jesus healed ALL that were oppressed of the devil so what makes you think Paul is any different from the All?

No where in the NT was anyone turned away from getting their healing or deliverance when they asked for it.

If you are going to use Paul's thorn as an excuse for your unbelief as far as healing goes, then where are your abundance of revelations, where are your Nt books that make up most of the nt?????


then at the end of your statement you put all the blame over onto God by stating "and God's plans are always perfect" so by this i am led to believe sickness comes from God?????

macca

Wow! You sure read a lot between the lines - mostly what is not here. Where did I say that I did not believe in healing? Apparently you did not read my original post in this thread. If you're going to quote me, please do it correctly. I do NOT blame God for anything. Again, do not quote me if you can't quote correctly, please. God has a plan for everyone's life, and His plan can be carried out perfectly, regardless of the situation we find ourselves in during our life. If you look at how many people have overcome serious adversity to proclaim the Gospel and lead others to Christ, it is clear that God's plan for their life has been fulfilled. Roman 8:28 (and I quote correctly) "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose." The first person that comes to my mind in Joni Eriksan Tada (spelling?) Look at the ministry that has grown in her life, in spite of the devastating circumstances of her life? Joyce Meyer grew up being sexually abused by her father. Look at the ministry that has grown in her life. And there are many others. There are different healings - physical and spiritual - that we may experience. And I stand by my statement - Can God heal? You bet! Does He heal everyone? NO! And we will never know the reason - we can only place our faith in the knowledge that all children of God will be perfectly healed in glory.

Many blessings to you.

Why would we need to be healed in glory? what sickness is in heaven? i guess that "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven" means that to you people in heaven must have to suffer as they do on earth and there must be others up there that God wants to be an example to others of His grace and stay tormented to show His glory for all to see....

no wonder people don't want anything to do with churches if thats all you can offer them.

macca

macca, you are redundant and boorish. You take everything and twist it so you can be critical and rude. Not even worthy of further discussion with you. But, God Bless you in spite of yourself.