Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Proof Text

[bibleman]

Dolph
Your right quoting proof texts doesn't prove much, but I did it because this is the proof text crowd. However there are enough verses to supply witness testimony (God through Moses that it take two or three witnesses for conviction).

Hi Ed,

I have not heard that before but I like it.

I am a proud member of the "proof text crowd."

Seems that Jesus was a member of the proof text crowd as well: Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

What would be a good name for those who simply make up their theology based on church history and their own sinful thinking?

What about the "doctrine of devils crowd" ?

[Justaned]

Dolph
Your right quoting proof texts doesn't prove much, but I did it because this is the proof text crowd. However there are enough verses to supply witness testimony (God through Moses that it take two or three witnesses for conviction).

Hi Ed,

I have not heard that before but I like it.

I am a proud member of the "proof text crowd."

Seems that Jesus was a member of the proof text crowd as well: Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

What would be a good name for those who simply make up their theology based on church history and their own sinful thinking?

What about the "doctrine of devils crowd" ?

Actually Jesus didn't proof text he quoted scripture that when viewed in context said exactly what Jesus was saying. Proof texters do not care about context they simply want a sentence that supports their view.
Incidently none of mine (quoted texts violated the meaning of the passage they were taken from).

False Teachers love to proof text. I have never heard one false teacher that failed to prove everything he said by a verse of scripture. What most people missed was that the verse of scripture was ripped from context and when read in context never even remotely said what the false teachers claimed it to say.

False Teachers also love to get into a Strong's Concordance and look up all the possible translations of a word and then they pick one that fits their sermon. Never mind the fact that original language forbides that translation of the word as used in original language. Most of these guys are simply ignorant of the original language and really not intent on distorting the word.

Lastly False teachers love to cloud the issue if they can't disprove a position they simply cloud the discussion about things like, what do we call this or what do we call that?

Oh oh I forgot one. False teachers never want to consider the WHOLE BIBLE or the OVERALL message of the WHOLE BIBLE they only want to focus on a small usually obscure passages to prove their theology. Editted to include last paragraph

[bibleman]

Hi Ed,

Not only did Jesus give Scripture to make his point, that proved his beliefs, but so did Dake!

Scriptural Proof that God Wills Prosperity

God has definitely made many promises concerning the prosperity and happiness of His children.
“Be thou strong and very courageous, that thou mayest observe to do according to all the law . . . turn not from it to the right hand or to the left, that thou mayest prosper whithersoever thou goest . . . thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success” (Josh. 1:5-9);
“The Lord maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up. He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory” (1 Sam. 2:7-8);
“And keep the charge of the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways . . . that thou mayest prosper in all that thou doest, and whithersoever thou turnest thyself” (1 Ki. 2:3-4);
“Both riches and honour come of thee, and thou reignest over all; and in thine hand is power and might: and in thine hand it is to make great, and to give strength to all” (1 Chr. 29:12);
“The hand of our God is upon all them for good that seek him: but his power and his wrath is against them that forsake him” (Ezra 8:22);
“If they obey and serve him, they shall spend their days in prosperity, and their years in pleasures” (Job 36:11);
“Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall -not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper” (Ps. 1:1-3).
Finis J. Dake, Bible Truths Unmasked, (Lawrenceville, GA: Dake Publishing, Inc., 2003), WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 199.

All great proofs from the Scripture that God wants us to prosper!

[Justaned]

Again let me give an excellent quote from Wikipedia about prooftexting

Prooftexting (sometimes "proof-texting" or "proof texting") is the practice of using isolated quotations from a document to establish a proposition. Using discrete quotations is generally seen as decontextualised. Critics note that such quotes may not accurately reflect the original intent of the author, and that a document quoted in such a manner may not in fact support the proposition for which it was cited when read as a whole.

This is to be distinguished from quotations from a source deemed a hostile witness, who inadvertently substantiates a point beneficial to his opponents in the course of his own narrative. Even when lifted out of context, those facts still stand.

Many ministers and teachers have used some version of the following humorous anecdote to demonstrate the dangers of prooftexting: "A man dissatisfied with his life decided to consult the Bible for guidance. Closing his eyes, he flipped the book open and pointed to a spot on the page. Opening his eyes, he read the verse under his finger. It read, "Then Judas went away and hanged himself" (Matthew 27:5b) Closing his eyes again, the man randomly selected another verse. This one read, "Jesus told him, 'Go and do likewise.'" (Luke 10:37b)"

With that in mind if scripture does in fact say what someone claims it does, and that idea or doctrine is supportted by the testimony of two or three witnesses of other scripture and if it does not violate the overall agreement of all of scripture then yes it valid use of the text.

[Justaned]

James 4:3 (NKJV)
3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.

If some one says God wants to prosper you and is speaking of physical prosperity rather than spiritual prosperity then they have to say so you can give it all away to feed the orphans. widows and poor.

God said clearly although scripture our prosperity is never given to feed the lusts of our flesh.

Now before you jump on me God did promise to provision us. And to provision is to supply or acquire what is needed for the journey God has set before us.
Think of a gold miner he came to town to buy his provisions, the things he would need to be able to sustain his quest. He didn't seek provision beyond what was needed for his task. Too many Christians seek provision beyond what is needed for their service to God.

[bibleman]

James 4:3 (NKJV)
3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.

If some one says God wants to prosper you and is speaking of physical prosperity rather than spiritual prosperity then they have to say so you can give it all away to feed the orphans. widows and poor.

God said clearly although scripture our prosperity is never given to feed the lusts of our flesh.

Now before you jump on me God did promise to provision us. And to provision is to supply or acquire what is needed for the journey God has set before us.
Think of a gold miner he came to town to buy his provisions, the things he would need to be able to sustain his quest. He didn't seek provision beyond what was needed for his task. Too many Christians seek provision beyond what is needed for their service to God.

Hi Ed,

What is wrong with our flesh...

having food to eat?
clothes to wear?
a house to live in?
a car to drive?
a rest every 7 days?
a vacation every now and then?

Is this wrong?

PS - Would you please send me any money you have OVER your cost of bread and water and a pulp tent to live in?

[Justaned]

James 4:3 (NKJV)
3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.

If some one says God wants to prosper you and is speaking of physical prosperity rather than spiritual prosperity then they have to say so you can give it all away to feed the orphans. widows and poor.

God said clearly although scripture our prosperity is never given to feed the lusts of our flesh.

Now before you jump on me God did promise to provision us. And to provision is to supply or acquire what is needed for the journey God has set before us.
Think of a gold miner he came to town to buy his provisions, the things he would need to be able to sustain his quest. He didn't seek provision beyond what was needed for his task. Too many Christians seek provision beyond what is needed for their service to God.

Hi Ed,

What is wrong with our flesh...

having food to eat?
clothes to wear?
a house to live in?
a car to drive?
a rest every 7 days?
a vacation every now and then?

Is this wrong?

PS - Would you please send me any money you have OVER your cost of bread and water and a pulp tent to live in?

Bibleman
There you go race straight across the road and into a ditch. No where did I say God wanted you to live a starvation life. Now did I?
I don't have to ask you to send me your money because I get off my duff from time to time and earn what I need. And God being faithful has supplied my need, not my fleshly wants.

[scottae316]

Now this is a classic Dake Board debate. First, let's look at what Leon said, he is a proof texting person. Now twice Ed has given a definition that proof texting is taking (usually ripping) a verse or verses out of context that standing by themselves prove your point but actually is not what the Bible teaches. Let's do an easy example;

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again; Jesus from John 3:7. Now this proves reincarnation, you have to be born again, Jesus said it. WAIT!!! You say that is not what the verse is saying, it is talking about being born again of the spirit. AHHH! Proof texting, this is what it is.

Now Leon, you ignore the entire content of Ed's message and only "proof text" to make a counter point of a point that Ed did not make.

Justaned wrote:
James 4:3 (NKJV)
3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.

If some one says God wants to prosper you and is speaking of physical prosperity rather than spiritual prosperity then they have to say so you can give it all away to feed the orphans. widows and poor.

God said clearly although scripture our prosperity is never given to feed the lusts of our flesh.

Now before you jump on me God did promise to provision us. And to provision is to supply or acquire what is needed for the journey God has set before us.
Think of a gold miner he came to town to buy his provisions, the things he would need to be able to sustain his quest. He didn't seek provision beyond what was needed for his task. Too many Christians seek provision beyond what is needed for their service to God.

Leon replied with:
Hi ed,

What is wrong with our flesh...

having food to eat?
clothes to wear?
a house to live in?
a car to drive?
a rest every 7 days?
a vacation every now and then?

Is this wrong?

Now lets look at this exchange again here between Leon and Ed. Ed quotes James 4:3 and shows how many of the ministers that over-emphasis material prosperity use this verse. But it is a classic example of proof texting. Next Leon replies but ignores Ed's example of meeting physical needs and Leon goes on to list needs we have and a few things that make life easier and more pleasant. Now, please observe, no where did Ed say that we should not have these things, what Ed is clearly discussing is over emphasis of material prosperity and what boils down to greed and lust.

Come on people, this is exactly what this board has become, two groups. One larger and one smaller, talking past each other and trying to one up the other. Is this really what you want? People reading meanings into posts that are not there or picking just to pick and one up? Really?? Okay, lets the stones fly, I don't care. It has and is ridiculous and while I am no expert on Dake, I would imagine that he would not take kindly to this in a board named in his memory.

[bibleman]

Now this is a classic Dake Board debate. First, let's look at what Leon said, he is a proof texting person. Now twice Ed has given a definition that proof texting is taking (usually ripping) a verse or verses out of context that standing by themselves prove your point but actually is not what the Bible teaches. Let's do an easy example;

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again; Jesus from John 3:7. Now this proves reincarnation, you have to be born again, Jesus said it. WAIT!!! You say that is not what the verse is saying, it is talking about being born again of the spirit. AHHH! Proof texting, this is what it is.

Now Leon, you ignore the entire content of Ed's message and only "proof text" to make a counter point of a point that Ed did not make.

Justaned wrote:
James 4:3 (NKJV)
3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.

If some one says God wants to prosper you and is speaking of physical prosperity rather than spiritual prosperity then they have to say so you can give it all away to feed the orphans. widows and poor.

God said clearly although scripture our prosperity is never given to feed the lusts of our flesh.

Now before you jump on me God did promise to provision us. And to provision is to supply or acquire what is needed for the journey God has set before us.
Think of a gold miner he came to town to buy his provisions, the things he would need to be able to sustain his quest. He didn't seek provision beyond what was needed for his task. Too many Christians seek provision beyond what is needed for their service to God.

Leon replied with:
Hi ed,

What is wrong with our flesh...

having food to eat?
clothes to wear?
a house to live in?
a car to drive?
a rest every 7 days?
a vacation every now and then?

Is this wrong?

Now lets look at this exchange again here between Leon and Ed. Ed quotes James 4:3 and shows how many of the ministers that over-emphasis material prosperity use this verse. But it is a classic example of proof texting. Next Leon replies but ignores Ed's example of meeting physical needs and Leon goes on to list needs we have and a few things that make life easier and more pleasant. Now, please observe, no where did Ed say that we should not have these things, what Ed is clearly discussing is over emphasis of material prosperity and what boils down to greed and lust.

Come on people, this is exactly what this board has become, two groups. One larger and one smaller, talking past each other and trying to one up the other. Is this really what you want? People reading meanings into posts that are not there or picking just to pick and one up? Really?? Okay, lets the stones fly, I don't care. It has and is ridiculous and while I am no expert on Dake, I would imagine that he would not take kindly to this in a board named in his memory.

Hi Scott,

I believe that the Bible is our proof of our doctrine and our faith.

And I will still use Scripture to support my beliefs.

And as to Dake taking kindly to this Board representing his views? I think that he would or else I would take it down. Dake had to fight against people who did not believe the Bible his whole life long, not just a few people dropping by a internet Bible Discussion Board but professors, preachers and so called scholars themselves. Still Dake would always us the Bible to PROVE his doctrine. I think I will do the same.

[scottae316]

Now this is a classic Dake Board debate. First, let's look at what Leon said, he is a proof texting person. Now twice Ed has given a definition that proof texting is taking (usually ripping) a verse or verses out of context that standing by themselves prove your point but actually is not what the Bible teaches. Let's do an easy example;

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again; Jesus from John 3:7. Now this proves reincarnation, you have to be born again, Jesus said it. WAIT!!! You say that is not what the verse is saying, it is talking about being born again of the spirit. AHHH! Proof texting, this is what it is.

Now Leon, you ignore the entire content of Ed's message and only "proof text" to make a counter point of a point that Ed did not make.

Justaned wrote:
James 4:3 (NKJV)
3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.

If some one says God wants to prosper you and is speaking of physical prosperity rather than spiritual prosperity then they have to say so you can give it all away to feed the orphans. widows and poor.

God said clearly although scripture our prosperity is never given to feed the lusts of our flesh.

Now before you jump on me God did promise to provision us. And to provision is to supply or acquire what is needed for the journey God has set before us.
Think of a gold miner he came to town to buy his provisions, the things he would need to be able to sustain his quest. He didn't seek provision beyond what was needed for his task. Too many Christians seek provision beyond what is needed for their service to God.

Leon replied with:
Hi ed,

What is wrong with our flesh...

having food to eat?
clothes to wear?
a house to live in?
a car to drive?
a rest every 7 days?
a vacation every now and then?

Is this wrong?

Now lets look at this exchange again here between Leon and Ed. Ed quotes James 4:3 and shows how many of the ministers that over-emphasis material prosperity use this verse. But it is a classic example of proof texting. Next Leon replies but ignores Ed's example of meeting physical needs and Leon goes on to list needs we have and a few things that make life easier and more pleasant. Now, please observe, no where did Ed say that we should not have these things, what Ed is clearly discussing is over emphasis of material prosperity and what boils down to greed and lust.

Come on people, this is exactly what this board has become, two groups. One larger and one smaller, talking past each other and trying to one up the other. Is this really what you want? People reading meanings into posts that are not there or picking just to pick and one up? Really?? Okay, lets the stones fly, I don't care. It has and is ridiculous and while I am no expert on Dake, I would imagine that he would not take kindly to this in a board named in his memory.

Hi Scott,

I believe that the Bible is our proof of our doctrine and our faith.

And I will still use Scripture to support my beliefs.

And as to Dake taking kindly to this Board representing his views? I think that he would or else I would take it down. Dake had to fight against people who did not believe the Bible his whole life long, not just a few people dropping by a internet Bible Discussion Board but professors, preachers and so called scholars themselves. Still Dake would always us the Bible to PROVE his doctrine. I think I will do the same.

Hi Leon,

First, where did I say that the Bible is not the basis or proof for doctrine or faith? I have always said that we should use the Bible and base our beliefs on it not the interpretations of people like Luther, Calvin, Wesley, Hagin or Dake. Yes, we can read what those individual said about Scripture, but to base doctrine on something other than the Bible is wrong. Could you please point to where I said we should not use the Bible? Also, I never said one should not use the Bible to support ones beliefs, again can you show where I said that? Finally, if you would have actually read what I said instead of proof-texting, I never said that Dake would not use the Bible. What I clearly said was that Dake would not approve of the constant bickering, picking, and pulling out of context of what people say. Now if you think that Dake approved of Christians bickering, picking and pulling out of context what people say to make their point or one up someone could you please provide a reference for this from something written by Dake as I have a hard time believing that Dake would have done that?