Dake Bible Discussion BoardSpeaking In Tongues At Will

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Justaned
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Re: Speaking In Tongues At Will

Post by Justaned » Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:38 am

Agabus wrote:
Justaned wrote:I think the gulf between us is further widened by how we view "Baptism or the Holy Spirit". I believe you probably believe it is an addition in our spiritual walk. I view it as something that was there from salvation that we learn to yield to.
I don't believe speaking in tongues is proof of the Spirit Baptism, Ed. I believe that the proof of the Spirit Baptism is power for the purpose of being a witness where the individual is sent (Acts 1:4-8). In my opinion, most that have spoken in other tongues have never been baptized in the Spirit. I, also believe that if a person speaks in tongues, they ought to pray that they might interpret (even in private prayer) so that their understanding won't remain unfruitful.

I am familiar with the position that says the Spirit Baptism was there from salvation and that we just need to learn to yield to it. Have you read Empowered Evangelicals by Pastor Rich Nathan of the Vineyard? He explains a similar position to what your saying, quite well.

That said, since I don't believe that speaking in tongues is proof of the Spirit Baptism, I think that you may have mis-guessed what I believe concerning both.
Actually we don't have a conflict there. Our conflict is who intiates the actual speaking in tongues. Is it man's timing or the Holy Spirit's? I say in private prayer if can be either. But in a public setting when tongues is desired by the Holy Spirit to be used to give out a message, that the HOly Spirit not man decides when to speak. Man may refuse but I believe the Holy Spirit will find another willing servant and the message will come forth. I further believe tooo many times the Holy Spirit is silent yet some one gives a message in tongues. I find those messages to be little more then "The sky is blue the grass is green and God loves you type messages. I think when the HOly Spirit initiates the message hearts are touched, men are changed and fear and trembling is presence. No one remains unchanged, untouched.



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Justaned
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Re: Speaking In Tongues At Will

Post by Justaned » Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:57 am

Agabus wrote:
Justaned wrote:I think much of what is called "speaking in tongues" today is man generated manifestations. I further believe this is why it isn't producing the same dramatic effects it did in Acts and in the early moves of the Pentecostal movement. Where people didn't get cured of head aches or back pain but instead had closed eye(read nonexistant eyes) opened and actual missing limbs visibly grown before a whole company of witnesses. Things that added thousands to the church daily.

These things come only through prayer and fasting and it isn't a five minute lay me down to sleep prayer nor is it I won't eat twinkies for week fastings.
I comes from a dedicated, committed, rigid Righteous living, with more time spent in the prayer closet than out and filled with submitted servanthood.
I don't look to speaking in tongues to produce the results of other gifts (like faith, miracles, or healings). Tongues are for communication with God (or sometimes with the local church, if interpretted). The other gifts are for what they are for. Confusing the purpose of one with another can only result in confusion, in my opinion.

I don't blame whether or not miracles, healings, or God-like faith manifest on whether or not a person speaks in tongues. All those things were manifest before Pentecost without tongues.

I've never understood the twinkie fast or whatever you want to call it. My Bible describes fasts as neither food nor drink; or, at least, no food. I don't understand the 5-minute lay me down to sleep prayer, either. And, I don't see either of these are necessarily a prerequisite to the gifts of miracles, faith, or healings. A person either has these gifts or they do not. I believe they are gifts, not something payment for services rendered.

And, please, don't mistake any of this as being against righteous living. That's basic Christianity (reasonable service, Romans 12:1-2). If you don't have that, worrying about the gifts is worrying about the wrong problem (1 John 3:10). And, yes, a person that once was given the the ability to speak in tongues can continue to do it even if they've fallen away. Speaking in tongues isn't proof that a person is still saved, so-to-speak.

Agabus
Please don't miss what I was saying or trying to say.
I believe real manifestations of the Holy Spirit beit speaking in tongues, healing, word of prophecy, whatever. changes lives. Changes lives in a mighty and dramatic way. In ACTS thousands were saved and added to the church.

Today many so called manifestations of the Holy Spirit actually go unnoticed by the whole of the church. I have seen some in churches actually stand up and leave when a "Holy Spirit" message is being given. Does anyone believe that man no matter how callous would be bold enough to walk away from God when God is speaking. Read the Book of Job even Satan remained attentive and respectful when God spoke.

When the Holy Spirit is manifested before man people are changed forever.



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Re: Speaking In Tongues At Will

Post by Reuben » Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:15 pm

I don't look to speaking in tongues to produce the results of other gifts (like faith, miracles, or healings). Tongues are for communication with God (or sometimes with the local church, if interpretted). The other gifts are for what they are for. Confusing the purpose of one with another can only result in confusion, in my opinion.
I agree that much confusion comes from misunderstanding the difference between the Gift of Tongues (needing interpretation) being operated in the church assembly compared to the prayer language. In dealing with non-pentecostal people who have come into the church... once explaining 1st Cor. 14 etc... they usually become accepting and understanding of it.



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branham1965
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Re: Speaking In Tongues At Will

Post by branham1965 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:34 am

DAKE'S ANNOTATED REFERENCE BIBLE ....
ON ACTS 2 VERSE 4 ..."THIS WAS SIMILAR TO THE SPIRIT SPEAKING THROUGH THE PROPHETS IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE. ACTS 3:21,HEBREWS 1:1-2 ONLY HERE IT WAS WITH DIFFERENT LANGUAGES V4,6,11.THOUGH SPEAKING IN TONGUES IS DONE THROUGH IMMEDIATE INSPIRATION BY NEW RECIPIENTS WHEN ONE HAS RECIEVED THE GIFT,IT THEN BECOMES A PART OF HIS MENTAL MAKE-UP SO THAT HE CAN ,IF HE DESIRES TO DO SO ,EXERCISE IT WITHOUT DIRECT INSPIRATION, EVEN IN A BACKSLIDDEN CONDITION 1 COR 13:1-3 THIS IS WHY THE EXERCISE OF VOCAL GIFTS OF PROPHECY,TONGUES AND INTERPRETATION OF TONGUES IS COMMANDED TO BE REGULATED AND EVEN JUDGED AS TO WHETHER IT BE UNDER DIRECT INSPIRATION OR WHETHER THE PERSON IS EXERCISING A GIFT OF HIMSELF.1 COR 14:29-33.

:angel: THE REVEREND FINIS JENNINGS DAKE. :angel:



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Re: Speaking In Tongues At Will

Post by davido » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:40 pm

I''m listening to Derek Prince's tape on the expression of the gifts
in the congragation. He notices people dancing routinely about.
I identify with his perception. WE can become bound to a tradition
like dancing or perhaps even speaking in tongues when it is no
longer liberty of The Spirit but bondage.
Even Spirit filled groups can act out something.
As for me, I have read all these scriptures, but I find myself
all my life with wife, kids who ask me about this thing I do
without thinking about it. I just do it, but actually at
the H.S. conference I was comfortable with it, but I don't
think the Spirit wants me to put on an act. I'm not condeming
people whom feel comfortable in the congregation, even rasing
hands, but we're all different and I think above all else
being in love with God is devine and when The Spirit wants
to operate, does He ever and then theres times I quench for
The Spirit. I think much is out of our control, because you
see its not all intellectual, but although I know my bible
well, I'm just a dummy compared to The Acts of The Holy Spirit.
I do know He is present when there is libery for Him to operate.
Churches that restrict tongues to the basement or certain
nights is not for me. Anyway, I've never found a really
Spirit filled church, like even retired pentecostal ministers,
they too are perplexed by the rules churchs set and how
they restirct the operation of the Holy Spirit.
Thats my view. And, I see nothing in my paragrahph that is not
straight forward to understand.
I do not see why speaking in tongues should seperate a couple.
My wife is Roman Catholica and I was raised Lutheran,
but you see we both love and obey God and we get along just fine
now for 20 years. I feel Christ church is all under Christ, and
I do not include cults. I think too I watch television church
and they talk about the old testaments tithing and still endorse
that, however Jesus abolished that and in Hebrews we have a new
priest, so I've little to do with false doctrines.
If you really belive in God, Jesus Christ, The Holy Spirit
and if you're led to give by The Spirit as to whom and how
much, nothing can beat that.
Thats 4 aces.



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branham1965
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Re: Speaking In Tongues At Will

Post by branham1965 » Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:39 am

Did the late great Derek Prince teach tithing????? :|

davido wrote:I''m listening to Derek Prince's tape on the expression of the gifts
in the congragation. He notices people dancing routinely about.
I identify with his perception. WE can become bound to a tradition
like dancing or perhaps even speaking in tongues when it is no
longer liberty of The Spirit but bondage.
Even Spirit filled groups can act out something.
As for me, I have read all these scriptures, but I find myself
all my life with wife, kids who ask me about this thing I do
without thinking about it. I just do it, but actually at
the H.S. conference I was comfortable with it, but I don't
think the Spirit wants me to put on an act. I'm not condeming
people whom feel comfortable in the congregation, even rasing
hands, but we're all different and I think above all else
being in love with God is devine and when The Spirit wants
to operate, does He ever and then theres times I quench for
The Spirit. I think much is out of our control, because you
see its not all intellectual, but although I know my bible
well, I'm just a dummy compared to The Acts of The Holy Spirit.
I do know He is present when there is libery for Him to operate.
Churches that restrict tongues to the basement or certain
nights is not for me. Anyway, I've never found a really
Spirit filled church, like even retired pentecostal ministers,
they too are perplexed by the rules churchs set and how
they restirct the operation of the Holy Spirit.
Thats my view. And, I see nothing in my paragrahph that is not
straight forward to understand.
I do not see why speaking in tongues should seperate a couple.
My wife is Roman Catholica and I was raised Lutheran,
but you see we both love and obey God and we get along just fine
now for 20 years. I feel Christ church is all under Christ, and
I do not include cults. I think too I watch television church
and they talk about the old testaments tithing and still endorse
that, however Jesus abolished that and in Hebrews we have a new
priest, so I've little to do with false doctrines.
If you really belive in God, Jesus Christ, The Holy Spirit
and if you're led to give by The Spirit as to whom and how
much, nothing can beat that.
Thats 4 aces.



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Justaned
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Re: Speaking In Tongues At Will

Post by Justaned » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:57 pm

I still say if the human initiates the speaking in tongues then it isn't the Holy Spirit it is the human that initiated it. And that is the problem with a high percentage of the manifestations of tongues in the church today.
The Holy Spirit didn't initiate it to begin with.

It may be a prayer language, it may be a counterfeit or it could be a learned utterance but unless it is initiated by the Holy Spirit it isn't of the Holy Spirit

So the answer to the question "can you speak in tongues at will?" Is no!
Yes you can refuse to be used but you can not initiate something the Holy Spirit has not first initiated and have it be genuine.

To suggest that we can initiate a genuine manifestation is to say we control the Holy Spirit and tell HIm what to do.



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Re: Speaking In Tongues At Will

Post by davido » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:25 pm

Derek Prince was as perfect in reading the scriptures and would never
take part in false teaching as encouraging tithing. Neither have
any mainline denominations ever taught tithing such as the
Lutheran chruch, Methodist church or the Assembly of God churches
I've attended. these denominations are a step ahead of truth
than those that are loose with their omitting essential scriptures.
One must know many deliberatly overlook what they don't like
in the scriptures, but this is error.

Did the late great Derek Prince teach tithing?????

Derek Prince was perhaps the best bible teacher period. What is says their can be no doubt it is
absolutely accurate.
I do not recall Derek every pressing for donations,
but rather he spoke at groups where he was in
great demand. His ethics were uncomprimising,
and he wrote many books, and tapes. Derek
was led of The Lord and said once how God
did him exceeding well. Derek didn't need to
ask for even contrubution save perhaps requesting
people to help for projects. In my opinion Derek
Prince was the greatest bible teacher alive during
his time. I cannot refute either Kenneth Copeland,
however Derek delved into a host of subjects,
being a bible teacher primarily. His teachings
are still available on video via the computer.
Derek would never have endorsed tithing as
he was absolutely scripitual. If you've ever any
questions about the absolute authenticity of
a bible subject, he is without doubt the most
accuate, having really gone deep into the word
revealing nothing but the absolute truth.
You must listen to Derek to comprehend his
strict adherance to the word of God. Derek
would not bend the truth for his own gain,
and I've listened to most of Dereks tapes since
1975 and read his books. I would neither fault
Dake as Dake was impeckably linked to truth.
Many of the evangilists that teach tithing have
a double standard. I find they will omit truth and
preach the truths they select. Basically Derek
didn't worry about money, as He was the Lords
servent as was his wife. One must read his
lifes story to comprehend how committed he
was to Jesus Christ. With his educational
accomplishments it would be out of character
for Derek to be anything but the best role model.
Read Dereks life story and listen to his audio's
and you'll understand Derek was absolutely
scripitual in every detail not having any tradition
that would alter the truth of the gospel.



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branham1965
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Re: Speaking In Tongues At Will

Post by branham1965 » Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:16 am

DEREK PRINCE
WAS A GREAT MAN.
IM CERTAIN HE TAUGHT TITHING.
IF A PERSON FIGHTS TITHING THEY ARE
BEING DISOBEDIENT TO GODS WORD.
ITS ONE OF THE UTTER JOYS OF LIFE TO TITHE UNTO THE LORD.

davido wrote:Derek Prince was as perfect in reading the scriptures and would never
take part in false teaching as encouraging tithing. Neither have
any mainline denominations ever taught tithing such as the
Lutheran chruch, Methodist church or the Assembly of God churches
I've attended. these denominations are a step ahead of truth
than those that are loose with their omitting essential scriptures.
One must know many deliberatly overlook what they don't like
in the scriptures, but this is error.

Did the late great Derek Prince teach tithing?????

Derek Prince was perhaps the best bible teacher period. What is says their can be no doubt it is
absolutely accurate.
I do not recall Derek every pressing for donations,
but rather he spoke at groups where he was in
great demand. His ethics were uncomprimising,
and he wrote many books, and tapes. Derek
was led of The Lord and said once how God
did him exceeding well. Derek didn't need to
ask for even contrubution save perhaps requesting
people to help for projects. In my opinion Derek
Prince was the greatest bible teacher alive during
his time. I cannot refute either Kenneth Copeland,
however Derek delved into a host of subjects,
being a bible teacher primarily. His teachings
are still available on video via the computer.
Derek would never have endorsed tithing as
he was absolutely scripitual. If you've ever any
questions about the absolute authenticity of
a bible subject, he is without doubt the most
accuate, having really gone deep into the word
revealing nothing but the absolute truth.
You must listen to Derek to comprehend his
strict adherance to the word of God. Derek
would not bend the truth for his own gain,
and I've listened to most of Dereks tapes since
1975 and read his books. I would neither fault
Dake as Dake was impeckably linked to truth.
Many of the evangilists that teach tithing have
a double standard. I find they will omit truth and
preach the truths they select. Basically Derek
didn't worry about money, as He was the Lords
servent as was his wife. One must read his
lifes story to comprehend how committed he
was to Jesus Christ. With his educational
accomplishments it would be out of character
for Derek to be anything but the best role model.
Read Dereks life story and listen to his audio's
and you'll understand Derek was absolutely
scripitual in every detail not having any tradition
that would alter the truth of the gospel.



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Watchman2013
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Re: Speaking In Tongues At Will

Post by Watchman2013 » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:12 pm

Justaned wrote:
Agabus wrote:
Justaned wrote:I think the gulf between us is further widened by how we view "Baptism or the Holy Spirit". I believe you probably believe it is an addition in our spiritual walk. I view it as something that was there from salvation that we learn to yield to.
I don't believe speaking in tongues is proof of the Spirit Baptism, Ed. I believe that the proof of the Spirit Baptism is power for the purpose of being a witness where the individual is sent (Acts 1:4-8). In my opinion, most that have spoken in other tongues have never been baptized in the Spirit. I, also believe that if a person speaks in tongues, they ought to pray that they might interpret (even in private prayer) so that their understanding won't remain unfruitful.

I am familiar with the position that says the Spirit Baptism was there from salvation and that we just need to learn to yield to it. Have you read Empowered Evangelicals by Pastor Rich Nathan of the Vineyard? He explains a similar position to what your saying, quite well.

That said, since I don't believe that speaking in tongues is proof of the Spirit Baptism, I think that you may have mis-guessed what I believe concerning both.
Actually we don't have a conflict there. Our conflict is who intiates the actual speaking in tongues. Is it man's timing or the Holy Spirit's? I say in private prayer if can be either. But in a public setting when tongues is desired by the Holy Spirit to be used to give out a message, that the HOly Spirit not man decides when to speak. Man may refuse but I believe the Holy Spirit will find another willing servant and the message will come forth. I further believe tooo many times the Holy Spirit is silent yet some one gives a message in tongues. I find those messages to be little more then "The sky is blue the grass is green and God loves you type messages. I think when the HOly Spirit initiates the message hearts are touched, men are changed and fear and trembling is presence. No one remains unchanged, untouched.
I concur, for that mirrors my experience and observations. Utterances in the flesh are as a clanging gong and a tinkling cymbal. When of The Spirit, our spirits bear witness, and as you say, "No one remains unchanged, untouched."


"Confess with your mouth, that 'Jesus is Lord,' believing in your heart that God raised Him from the Dead, and you will be saved, for with the heart, man believes and is justified, and with his profession of faith, he is saved." Romans 10:9-10.

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