Dake Bible Discussion BoardThe "HE" of Daniel 9:27

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titus213
Do Good to Them that Hate You
Posts: 470
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:45 pm

Re: The "HE" of Daniel 9:27

Post by titus213 »

Ray,

No, I don't believe Jesus avoids their question at all . . . he answers their questions about the Temple they were admiring in his initial comments in all 3 Gospels (Mt 24.2, Mk 13.2, Lk 21.6); but in Matthew and Mark he goes on to describe what happens after the Gospel has been preached (a detail not found in Luke) and the time of the end has been reached, at which time the future abomination of desolation will be seen in the future temple.

In other words, in the minds of his disciples (as judged by the way they asked their questions) the destruction of Herod's Temple, the return of Jesus and the end of the age would all happen at the same time; but Jesus very intentionally wants them to grasp the fact that the destruction of Herod's Temple (which he had already predicted) would not be the signal of the end of the age and his return in glory. They were separate events, to be separated by a long period of time. Thus Jesus gives them 2 distinct signs, the one in Luke 21.20 (pointing to the destruction of the Temple) and the one in Matthew and Mark pointing to the future Temple. The one pointing to 70 AD and the other pointing to the end of the age and Christ's return.

So he clearly answers both of their questions, while at the same time splitting what they thought of as a single event (destruction/end of age/second coming) into two distinct events.



Ray

Re: The "HE" of Daniel 9:27

Post by Ray »

fatherfisher,

It is in Matthew's account of the Olivet Discourse That the Question is asked by HIS Apostles "Tell us, when shall these things be?" Concerning
There not being a stone left upon another of Herod's Temple.

You wrote:
" Jesus gives them 2 distinct signs, the one in Luke 21.20 (pointing to the destruction of the Temple) and the one in Matthew and Mark pointing to the future Temple. The one pointing to 70 AD and the other pointing to the end of the age and Christ's return"

So, In Matthews account either JESUS avoids the Apostles question about
Herod's Temple in which HE (JESUS) had just then spoke of it's destruction and goes on and talks about a still yet future Temple's destruction, Or HE did as I think, which is made Very Clear, He speaks of The Temple Destruction that was then to occur in less than 40 years later in 70 A.D.



titus213
Do Good to Them that Hate You
Posts: 470
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:45 pm

Re: The "HE" of Daniel 9:27

Post by titus213 »

Ray,

As I have already pointed out, Jesus certainly does not avoid their question about Herod's Temple - his answer about that Temple is given in all 3 gospels, as I have shown. So I don't know why you keep insisting that he doesn't answer them.

Also, remember that the entire Discourse has to be re-constructed by connecting all 3 accounts (Matthew, Mark, and Luke). Jesus gave the entire teaching to his disciples at the same time, and included answers to their questions about the Temple in front of them right then, as well as what the future would hold at the end of the age.

Again, I think it is pretty clear that Jesus was wanting to get them to understand that the destruction of their Temple would NOT be the signal of the end of the age and the coming of the Son of Man, as they had assumed. There would be yet another Temple and another destruction (the one Daniel spoke about) before the end.



Ray

Re: The "HE" of Daniel 9:27

Post by Ray »

fatherfisher wrote:Ray,

As I have already pointed out, Jesus certainly does not avoid their question about Herod's Temple - his answer about that Temple is given in all 3 gospels, as I have shown. So I don't know why you keep insisting that he doesn't answer them.

Also, remember that the entire Discourse has to be re-constructed by connecting all 3 accounts (Matthew, Mark, and Luke). Jesus gave the entire teaching to his disciples at the same time, and included answers to their questions about the Temple in front of them right then, as well as what the future would hold at the end of the age.

Again, I think it is pretty clear that Jesus was wanting to get them to understand that the destruction of their Temple would NOT be the signal of the end of the age and the coming of the Son of Man, as they had assumed. There would be yet another Temple and another destruction (the one Daniel spoke about) before the end.

fatherfisher,

In what verses In Matthew 24 or Mark 13 Does JESUS answer the Question
asked HIM by HIS Apostles "Tell us, when shall these things be?" Concerning
There not being a stone left upon another of Herod's Temple ?



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