Dake Bible Discussion BoardBaptizing in the name of Jesus ONLY is NOT obeying Jesus!

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branham1965
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Re: Baptizing in the name of Jesus ONLY is NOT obeying Jesus

Post by branham1965 »

many who are Orthodox have him as a god Ray.they dont say it.but He to them is a lesser god than the Father and subordinate to the Father.
i heard a famous Preacher i like say btw we dont pray to Jesus but to the Father.his son said you obey Peter ill obey Jesus as far as baptism. :lol:


Ray wrote:
Rocky wrote:
branham1965 wrote:i understand mate.i agree with the Word you show of course.

my question: folks show John 14:28 to say Jesus was less than the Father.see Philippians 2
now ill answer you according to my understanding of the Reverend Dake Systematic Theology.

Jesus became a Son when he became flesh.He was not a Son in eternity.but He was a separate God equal with the Father and Holy Spirit.
so is this verse expressing Jesus Christ in His HUMANITY or His Eternal...DEITY??? is He as God equal to the other members in the Godhead???or is He less???

Ironman wrote:The Father is God, Jesus, the Word, (John 1:1), who was with God and who was God and became a man, (John 1:14), is also God!

And dont forget what Jesus who repects the Father and is in obedience to the Father, He said He came to do His FATHERS WILL! "For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me." (John 6:38).

Jesus also said, " MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN I," Right Here;

"Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." (John 14:28).

The Father is God, Jesus is also God and so is the Holy Spirit God!

Jesus also said, if you have seen me, you have seen the Father! "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" (John 14:9),

In a nutshell! When you look at a photograph of me at say age 25, you will say, "Theres Haz, yep, thats for sure! then look at a photograph of my biological father at age 25, you would say, "Thats Haz, yes, thats him!
If I May Billy, give a small theology teaching here, may be a bit long so bare with me.
I think Billy there maybe some misunderstanding in some churches or in some theology about the hypostatic union of christ and how that fits into the theology of the trinity. What I mean by hypostatic union of christ, When he came to the earth and was made flesh he was 100% Divine and 100% man not a half-ling like in the case of Hercules 50% of both. This aspect of him and his hypostatic union and belief in that, and how there are three the bare record in heaven and are one, is essential to the christian faith, this is why John in his first epistle put emphasis on this basic fundamental doctrine. Because the gnostics, who john was writing about in his 1st letter could not adhere to any deity being 100% man and 100% God. I guess because of thier Greek ideology of polytheism, they denied Jesus humanity or separated his hypostaticunion. But even knowing that can pose a problem with the understanding of that and of course as you well know this was the main subject matter for the first two councils in the 4th century. Jesus had no hypostatic union before he came in the flesh he was the divine logos(the word) the second person of the trinity, that is what Dake is in a sense is referring to. Son of man and son of God refers to humanity especially son of man, son of God has a both a divine and humanity union. But before he became flesh he was the divine logos, 100% deity(God) co equal with the father in divinity and deity. But I believe you already know all of this. A lot of oneness theology fail to see that Jesus is not the father or the holy spirit, three co equal in deity and one in unity and substance. And, correct me if I am wrong but oneness theology is Jesus is God the father right? No disrespect to you but if this is the case, that is completely against what the Scriptures and the early church fathers taught. I think they (oneness teachers and preachers) believe the way they do because they don't want to be identified with Polytheism and rightly so. But believing in the Tri-unity of God is not polytheism . let me explain; Not a seperate gods lets say like Odin or Thor or Zeus but a member of the same Godhead three with the same deity same Godhead. The false gods of mythology does not have a Godhead but differant forms of deity. like the god of thunder or the god of war etc, this as we know is not the case with the Godhead. Mythology says different gods and differences in deity. Dake is saying three separate individuals with the same deity all are God and one in unity. Also in mythology the gods are differant degrees of deity and ranks and this is the case in polytheism across the board in ancient Egyptian, Greek and Nordic,roman mythology and so forth. Like Loki the god of mischief is not as great but is deity as Odin but Odin has a greater degree of deity or godhood then Loki. In Christianity The Father,Jesus ,and the Holy Spirit are unified in deity(the Godhead). In the council in niece in 325 this is describe as using the term "of the same substance". Odin Loki are not of the same substance thier Deity and godhood is different. Ok now to John 14:28 this is referring to Jesus humanity not his divinity or deity. That's why I went into the whole hypostatic union of christ. If the Jesus is not equal in deity with the father then that would be Polytheism.


John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


In The Jehovah Witness's Bible "The New World Translation" John 1:1 is written as John 1:1 " In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a God." { NOTICE " A GOD" }

JESUS is not "a" God, He is THE GOD along with THE FATHER and THE HOLY SPIRIT.



Rocky

Re: Baptizing in the name of Jesus ONLY is NOT obeying Jesus

Post by Rocky »

branham1965 wrote:Rocky,

the false gods thing is cool.zeus. odin was a norse one.
some people today who are neo nazi's :neutral: actually worship odin and thor .

Dr.David K.Bernard is a fair cool dude.he is the head Bishop of the United Pentecostal Church.and he is a Bible Scholar with numerous degrees and honors.and has numerous books and debates one can obtain to learn the proper Oneness position.it is not Jesus Only as some think. :lol:
so far on here i have not used anything ive bought thats Apostolic and pretended it was my own.
i reckon that it shows but its my own thoughts at least.

so you believe JESUS was both very God and very Man on the earth???

im not sure im understanding you. +goofy
Yes, the term is known as hypo static union of christ. This is the theological term used to describe how God the Son, Jesus Christ, took on a human nature, yet remained fully God at the same time. Jesus always had been God the divine logos, the word, the second person of the trinity(John 8:58, 10:30), but at the incarnation Jesus became a human being (John 1:14). The addition of the human nature to the divine nature is Jesus, the God-man. This is the hypo static union, Jesus Christ, one Person, fully God and fully man. this study is actually quite deep but that is the explanation in a nut shell. Another thing to remember is Jesus is God’s Son in that He was conceived by the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:35). so even "son of God" refers to humanity But that does not mean Jesus is a crated being or that jessus did not exist before He was conceived. Jesus has always existed (John 8:58, 10:30). When Jesus was conceived, He became a human being in addition to being God (John 1:1). Billy you said
Dr.David K.Bernard is a fair cool dude.he is the head Bishop of the United Pentecostal Church.and he is a Bible Scholar with numerous degrees and honors.and has numerous books and debates one can obtain to learn the proper Oneness position.it is not Jesus Only as some think. :lol:
So what is the the oneness theology? Do they not claim Jesus is the Father?

Hi Ray you said
JESUS is not "a" God, He is THE GOD along with THE FATHER and THE HOLY SPIRIT
I am not sure about your reply because you did not explain But I am not implying that. I do not believe Jesus is a god. Or are you just telling me about the new world translation?



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branham1965
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Re: Baptizing in the name of Jesus ONLY is NOT obeying Jesus

Post by branham1965 »

Rocky,

where does the Scripture call Jesus "God the Son"??

peace. :Fade-color



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Re: Baptizing in the name of Jesus ONLY is NOT obeying Jesus

Post by bibleman »

branham1965 wrote:many who are Orthodox have him as a god Ray.they dont say it.but He to them is a lesser god than the Father and subordinate to the Father.
i heard a famous Preacher i like say btw we dont pray to Jesus but to the Father.his son said you obey Peter ill obey Jesus as far as baptism. :lol:
Hi Billy

Above you said: "i heard a famous Preacher i like say btw we dont pray to Jesus but to the Father."

Could that famous preacher have been Jesus?
John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Do you think Jesus missed it when HE told us NOT to pray to HIM but to pray to the FATHER?


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Leon Bible

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Rocky

Re: Baptizing in the name of Jesus ONLY is NOT obeying Jesus

Post by Rocky »

branham1965 wrote:Rocky,

where does the Scripture call Jesus "God the Son"??

peace. :Fade-color
I do not understand the logic to this question other it being rhetorical. Were does the bible say that Jesus is the Father or there is not three that bare record in heaven? Now do you see the nature of a rhetorical question? kind of sarcastic aren't they. Billy after you answer Bibleman could you answer some of the questions that I and Haz and other have asked, lets do it this way brother, answer peoples question but not with a question or in a rhetorical manner, Then ask your questions, that makes forums flow so much easier.



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branham1965
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Re: Baptizing in the name of Jesus ONLY is NOT obeying Jesus

Post by branham1965 »

i knew you would say that.you both read the exact same creed books!!!
im going to post my verses here.
now you and that feller and his son down there in Baton Rouge should read this John 14:14ff "AND WHATSOEVER YE SHALL ASK IN MY NAME THAT WILL I :| DO THAT THE FATHER MAY BE GLORIFIED IN THE SON.IF YE SHALL ASK ANY THING IN MY NAME I WILL :| DO IT." ask who???who???who???
when Paul sought the Lord thrice about his thorn in the flesh why was Paul talking to JESUS??? :|
NOTICE THIS in Acts 7:58-60 when Stephen was martyred .... the Scripture says Stephen was CALLING UPON GOD :| AND SAYING LORD JESUS :| RECEIVE MY SPIRIT....HE KNEELED DOWN AND CRIED LORD :| LAY NOT THIS SIN TO THEIR CHARGE.... :| :| :| :| :scrambleup: :scatter: :scatter: :scatter:
when one accepts the Absolute Deity of Jesus Christ and has the Revelation of Jesus Christ the Light goes on. :flasingsmile:
a few days ago i posted Jesus said NO MAN TAKETH MY LIFE I LAY IT DOWN AND I WILL TAKE IT UP AGAIN....ignored by everyone on here :turn-l:
I WILL DESTROY THIS TEMPLE AND IN THREE DAYS I WILL RAISE IT UP...no response either.
the LORD our God is One LORD. Duet. 6:4.and His True Name is the LORD JESUS CHRIST.



bibleman wrote:
branham1965 wrote:many who are Orthodox have him as a god Ray.they dont say it.but He to them is a lesser god than the Father and subordinate to the Father.
i heard a famous Preacher i like say btw we dont pray to Jesus but to the Father.his son said you obey Peter ill obey Jesus as far as baptism. :lol:
Hi Billy

Above you said: "i heard a famous Preacher i like say btw we dont pray to Jesus but to the Father."

Could that famous preacher have been Jesus?
John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Do you think Jesus missed it when HE told us NOT to pray to HIM but to pray to the FATHER?



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branham1965
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Re: Baptizing in the name of Jesus ONLY is NOT obeying Jesus

Post by branham1965 »

Isaiah 9:6-7 calls the LORD JESUS CHRIST ......
...and His Name shall be called.... Wonderful,Counselor,The Mighty God((SEE Psalms 50:1 to see exactly who that is :shock: :| :| :| ))THE EVERLASTING FATHER :shocked!: ....The Prince of Peace...

:scrambleup: :turn-l: :Fade-color :rainbow1: thank you Lord Jesus...

Rocky wrote:
branham1965 wrote:Rocky,

where does the Scripture call Jesus "God the Son"??

peace. :Fade-color
I do not understand the logic to this question other it being rhetorical. Were does the bible say that Jesus is the Father or there is not three that bare record in heaven? Now do you see the nature of a rhetorical question? kind of sarcastic aren't they. Billy after you answer Bibleman could you answer some of the questions that I and Haz and other have asked, lets do it this way brother, answer peoples question but not with a question or in a rhetorical manner, Then ask your questions, that makes forums flow so much easier.



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Re: Baptizing in the name of Jesus ONLY is NOT obeying Jesus

Post by Ironman »

Wow, billy, Thats a 50 cal bullet right between the eyes, who can argue with that?
"Re: Baptizing in the name of Jesus ONLY is NOT obeying Jesus
i knew you would say that.you both read the exact same creed books!!!
im going to post my verses here.
now you and that feller and his son down there in Baton Rouge should read this John 14:14ff "AND WHATSOEVER YE SHALL ASK IN MY NAME THAT WILL I DO THAT THE FATHER MAY BE GLORIFIED IN THE SON.IF YE SHALL ASK ANY THING IN MY NAME I WILL DO IT." ask who???who???who???
when Paul sought the Lord thrice about his thorn in the flesh why was Paul talking to JESUS???
NOTICE THIS in Acts 7:58-60 when Stephen was martyred .... the Scripture says Stephen was CALLING UPON GOD AND SAYING LORD JESUS RECEIVE MY SPIRIT....HE KNEELED DOWN AND CRIED LORD LAY NOT THIS SIN TO THEIR CHARGE....
when one accepts the Absolute Deity of Jesus Christ and has the Revelation of Jesus Christ the Light goes on.
a few days ago i posted Jesus said NO MAN TAKETH MY LIFE I LAY IT DOWN AND I WILL TAKE IT UP AGAIN....ignored by everyone on here
I WILL DESTROY THIS TEMPLE AND IN THREE DAYS I WILL RAISE IT UP...no response either.
the LORD our God is One LORD. Duet. 6:4.and His True Name is the LORD JESUS CHRIST."
.

And this'
"Isaiah 9:6-7 calls the LORD JESUS CHRIST ......
...and His Name shall be called.... Wonderful,Counselor,The Mighty God((SEE Psalms 50:1 to see exactly who that is ))THE EVERLASTING FATHER ....The Prince of Peace...

thank you Lord Jesus..."
.

I believe in the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost. As the Word, (John 1:1), who was with God, He, as an ETERNAL being had no beginning and NO END, only as a man, (John 1;14), did He have a beginning. The Word is an eternal living member of the Godhead.

Heres a good mind bender when reading billies post, (Jesus said NO MAN TAKETH MY LIFE I LAY IT DOWN AND I WILL TAKE IT UP AGAIN) , When Jesus, the man died, did the Word die as well? I would have to say, not likely! The Word who was with God and was God, John 1:1), . . . did the Word, raise up the man Jesus?

Thats a question thats hard to fathom. The Word still lives in my humble opinion, but now with a glorified flesh and bone body, (Luke 24:39).

Did the Word die. We know the man died, When the Word divested Himself of His power and glory and became a man, did the Word extinguish Himself? A man can die, we can understand that, but the Word, who was with God from the beginning and was God, did He die?? he never dies so was it possible for His to raise His man self from death?? head is spinning now! How many sleepless nights one would have to spend trying to fathom that!

I shudder when I think of their awesomeness!

Cheers, Haz.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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Re: Baptizing in the name of Jesus ONLY is NOT obeying Jesus

Post by macca »

no sleepless nights.



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Re: Baptizing in the name of Jesus ONLY is NOT obeying Jesus

Post by Ironman »

macca wrote:no sleepless nights.
G-Day mate. This is fair dinkum mate! I never ever told anyone this before but I will tell you now and share it with you and everyone else on here. When I was baptized, I was dunked fully under the water and held under by the minister, who was at the time, a personal friend of mine as well as the local minister. Whilst holding me under the water he loudly said this, I know because I heard him saying this. After a few words he immediately said this which I will never forget; I baptize you and saying, (my real name), In the Name of the Father, AND OF THE SON, and of the Holy Ghost!

I was then and only then, allowed by him to come up and out of the water. As I came out of the water, I felt a tingling all the way down my entire body from the top of my head down to my toe's, I also felt as if I was flying, floating on air, above the ground. I could see I was standing on the ground but I felt as if I wasn't??? When I arrived home that evening the first thing my wife said to me was, "Haz, you look different? Did everything go well?" I asked her what do you mean I look different, how do I look different?

She said, "You look all shiny, someone has polished you, you look as if you are glowing in some way!" I looked in the hallway mirror and I couldnt see anything physically different about me at all but she insists that I looked different?


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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