Dake Bible Discussion Board ⇒ Baptizing in the name of Jesus ONLY is NOT obeying Jesus!

[the_truth]

Yea, i can't work that one out??? must be getting thick in my old age

Macca,
My posts are quite cryptic sometimes. Therefore, you will probably have to re-read them a couple times and sit and meditate on it to understand what I'm saying. Sometimes i will leave important key concepts to jump straight to the point, but those key concepts need to be understood before grasping what i'm saying.

[the_truth]

What about the Apostle John and what he said in John, 12: 37-41
As verse 41 states; These things said Isaiah (Isaiah.) WHEN HE SAW HIS GLORY, AND SPOKE WITH HIM.

Who do you believe is the Him John and Isaiah are refering to?

macca

Macca,
I believe wholeheartedly in every word of the Scripture. So let's break-down John 12:37 and onward. So John wrote this to show how Nation refused to believe though CHRIST performed many miracles. Verse 37.

Then John shows that their unbelief was prophesied by the Prophet Isaiah. What did Isaiah say? He said that the ONE GOD, THE FATHER revealed HIS ARM to the Nation.Is 53:1 Who hath believed our Report? and to whom is the Arm of the Lord revealed?

Then, John goes on to say HE(the ONE GOD, THE FATHER) blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts". Now when did Isaiah say these things? John confirms and said these things were said when he(Isaiah) saw the Glory of the Lord(Is 6:1)

So John confirms as the Scripture confirms that CHRIST is the Arm of the Most High,(the ONE GOD who is the Father) that was revealed to the House of Israel and Judah.

I hope this clarifies what i believe.

[macca]

What about the Apostle John and what he said in John, 12: 37-41
As verse 41 states; These things said Isaiah (Isaiah.) WHEN HE SAW HIS GLORY, AND SPOKE WITH HIM.

Who do you believe is the Him John and Isaiah are refering to?

macca

Macca,
I believe wholeheartedly in every word of the Scripture. So let's break-down John 12:37 and onward. So John wrote this to show how Nation refused to believe though CHRIST performed many miracles. Verse 37.

Then John shows that their unbelief was prophesied by the Prophet Isaiah. What did Isaiah say? He said that the ONE GOD, THE FATHER revealed HIS ARM to the Nation.Is 53:1 Who hath believed our Report? and to whom is the Arm of the Lord revealed?

Then, John goes on to say HE(the ONE GOD, THE FATHER) blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts". Now when did Isaiah say these things? John confirms and said these things were said when he(Isaiah) saw the Glory of the Lord(Is 6:1)

So John confirms as the Scripture confirms that CHRIST is the Arm of the Most High,(the ONE GOD who is the Father) that was revealed to the House of Israel and Judah.

I hope this clarifies what i believe.

I understand your belief better now, thanks... i can not agree with you though.

macca

[macca]

Yea, i can't work that one out??? must be getting thick in my old age

Macca,
My posts are quite cryptic sometimes. Therefore, you will probably have to re-read them a couple times and sit and meditate on it to understand what I'm saying. Sometimes i will leave important key concepts to jump straight to the point, but those key concepts need to be understood before grasping what i'm saying.

Ok,
macca

[the_truth]

What about the Apostle John and what he said in John, 12: 37-41
As verse 41 states; These things said Isaiah (Isaiah.) WHEN HE SAW HIS GLORY, AND SPOKE WITH HIM.

Who do you believe is the Him John and Isaiah are refering to?

macca

Macca,
I believe wholeheartedly in every word of the Scripture. So let's break-down John 12:37 and onward. So John wrote this to show how Nation refused to believe though CHRIST performed many miracles. Verse 37.

Then John shows that their unbelief was prophesied by the Prophet Isaiah. What did Isaiah say? He said that the ONE GOD, THE FATHER revealed HIS ARM to the Nation.Is 53:1 Who hath believed our Report? and to whom is the Arm of the Lord revealed?

Then, John goes on to say HE(the ONE GOD, THE FATHER) blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts". Now when did Isaiah say these things? John confirms and said these things were said when he(Isaiah) saw the Glory of the Lord(Is 6:1)

So John confirms as the Scripture confirms that CHRIST is the Arm of the Most High,(the ONE GOD who is the Father) that was revealed to the House of Israel and Judah.

I hope this clarifies what i believe.

I understand your belief better now, thanks... i can not agree with you though.

macca

You don't agree with what statement(s)?

[branham1965]

hello Darren.

if you read what you are writing to me you might see it.

how many Lord's are there in Holy Writ??? 3,2 or One??
how many God's are there 3,2 or One???
how many Spirit's are there?? 3,2 or One.


AND ..... do you believe in the DEITY OF JESUS CHRIST.that He is God Almighty????

the_ truth were you once once a Jehovah's Witness??or a Bible Student??
dont be offended.i had some friends who were.

Hi Billy,
My name is Darren. I never take offense about anyone asking me a question. I will answer your questions, but i don't know what to think of it. The key word out of what you have written in this post is "HAD" friends. I guess that friendship is dissolved and i would assume because of their beliefs.

Anyway, Never was and never will be a Jehovah's witness, never studied their belief, do not want to study their beliefs. Neither am i an "Arian" believer. Never studied him.

I, myself, think that i am good Bible Student, but that's an opinion that will probably cause some to "chuckle" on this board.

The reason why i used "MAN" in the previous post is because the Apostle's were fighting against a doctrine in that day that said that CHRIST had not come in the "flesh". Therefore, Paul wrote and John re-affirmed that CHRIST came in the FLESH(i.e. meaning HE was truly a man). 2 John 7.

Who is Dr. Kenyon? Don't know him either. The reason why i wrote about INHERITANCE is because that is important in understanding how CHRIST got HIS Name, Authority, and Power, especially in the Age to come.

Question for you my friend, if Paul came back to the land of living and spoke that same Scripture concerning THE FATHER and THE LORD, would you ask him this same question and why? Isn't that Scripture enough to reveal who the ONE GOD is and who THE LORD is?

I'm at lost as to why believing in that verse requires further explanation?

[the_truth]

do you believe in the DEITY OF JESUS CHRIST.that He is God Almighty????
yes....or ....no??????

Billy,
I don't answer Yes or No questions just like that. I have to explain so it is 100% clear.

Do i believe in the Diety of Christ? 100% Absolutely. All the fullness of the "deity" dwelt in CHRIST as Paul said. Didn't the writer of Hebrews say that THE SON is the EXACT image/representation of the Nature of God, the Father. Which means the image is exactly like the source. Which means that one cannot distinguish the difference between the two in regards to this nature. So this proves that THE SON and THE FATHER have the same nature. "GOD ALMIGHTY" is a title that describes one of the attributes of the nature of the ONE GOD, THE FATHER. So THE SON too, must have this SAME attribute, therefore HE too should be called GOD ALMIGHTY.

But, is the IMAGE the SOURCE. No. Is the Source the Image? No. Therefore, THE FATHER is NOT THE SON and THE SON is not THE FATHER. But they both share the EXACT same nature. Therefore is CHRIST GOD ALMIGHTY? Absolutely. Is the ONE GOD, the Father GOD ALMIGHTY? Absolutely. Is CHRIST The Father? No, but HE has the EXACT same nature of THE FATHER.

[branham1965]

hey Darren.
thanks so much for the reply.

Jesus is called the Everlasting Father in Isaiah 9:5-6???was He??
I will not leave you Comfortless I will come to you John 14:18. did He??
the Lord is that Spirit 2 Cor 3:17 .was He???
Jesus said ask the Father in His Name.Jo 16:23 but in Jo 14:13-14 He says to ask Him in His name and He would answer.
earlier He said if we see Him we see the Father.v 9

in John 8:58 Jesus says He is the I AM.was He??
Romans 9:5 tells us who God is.
as does 2 Thess. 1:12"we pray this so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you,and you in him,according to the grace of our God and Lord,Jesus Christ. NIV 1984 footnote ;NASB 1973 footnote.
please know im just discussing this with you Darren.i know im on a Trinitarian board.
and my new Church is Apostolic Pentecostal.and these thoughts are my own.
please know that im NOT in any way anti Trinitarian.some of my best loved Preachers were-are Trinitarians.
i have found since i began studying this in the 1980's that many people think of Jesus as some smaller god like Arius & the JW's rather than GOD manifest in the flesh cf 1 Tim 3:16...and so im affirming the Absolute Deity of Jesus Christ.

[Ironman]

The Father is God, Jesus, the Word, (John 1:1), who was with God and who was God and became a man, (John 1:14), is also God!

And dont forget what Jesus who repects the Father and is in obedience to the Father, He said He came to do His FATHERS WILL! "For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me." (John 6:38).

Jesus also said, " MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN I," Right Here;

"Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." (John 14:28).

The Father is God, Jesus is also God and so is the Holy Spirit God!

Jesus also said, if you have seen me, you have seen the Father! "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" (John 14:9),

In a nutshell! When you look at a photograph of me at say age 25, you will say, "Theres Haz, yep, thats for sure! then look at a photograph of my biological father at age 25, you would say, "Thats Haz, yes, thats him!

[the_truth]

hey Darren.
please know im just discussing this with you Darren.i know im on a Trinitarian board. and my new Church is Apostolic Pentecostal.and these thoughts are my own. please know that im NOT in any way anti Trinitarian.some of my best loved Preachers were-are Trinitarians.

Hi Billy,
My friend in the Gospel, i respect your beliefs and why you believe as you do.

I don't label myself as trinitarian nor Oneness. Nor do i believe Jesus is some smaller god.

Yes. Jesus is Everlasting Father.
Yes. Jesus spoke and said "Before Abraham i am".
Jesus did come to them. Yes.

There are many verses that state who HE is and who HIS Son is.

The Scripture say unequivocally that the man,JESUS is GOD's Son, HE is THE CHRIST, who could do all things that THE FATHER did because THE FATHER gave HIM(i.e. THE SON didn't have it by himself), HIS(The Father's) power, authority, life, and Kingdom.

I understand how some can be believe in the doctrine of trinitarianism and the doctrine of Oneness. That's all good. Each view has their definition of who HE is.

The deity of CHRIST is un-questioned in Scripture, it is revealed explicitly. CHRIST was unique in that among other things HE was called the Last Adam. Adam was unique in that he was called THE FIRST. There was no such terms as "oneness" or "trinitarism" when God spoke HIS words through the Prophets and HIS Son. If the Prophets of old were to come back and converse with some using the same language that they used in the Scripture, then they would have serious problems with the theology and terms used to convey the godhead by the religious denominations of today. I've heard 1 argument used to support oneness is that men today who have children are "sons" at 1 time and when they fathered children, then they became "fathers". True. Trying to prove that 1 Person can be both "son" and "father". This is a very logical statement for man, but it becomes flawed when applied THE CREATOR.

The one flaw with that logic is that THE FATHER, who is THE ONE GOD as Paul said, was never created, nor begotten, nor born, therefore HE could NEVER take on the role of "a son" or "THE son". Scripture clearly confirms that THE ONE GOD who is THE FATHER revealed HIMSELF(i.e. revealed HIS WORD, HIS Person i.e. Who HE IS) through THE SON, who was "born" (i.e. brought forth) after the the fashion and likeness of flesh. What was brought forth was NOT the Person THE FATHER or neither the same Person as THE FATHER. Just as my children are NOT me.

In order to understand the GODhead, one must understand the terms THE FATHER, THE SON, "exact image/representation". If i take a coin and make an exact image of that coin and place it on a table and ask the question, Which one is the original based off what you see, you would not be able to tell. No one could because they are exactly alike. This is why JESUS said if you see THE SON, who is THE EXACT REPRESENTATION of the THE FATHER, then you have seen THE FATHER, who is unseen, and is not the copy, but is THE SOURCE and THE ORIGINAL.

So whether this is trinitarism, bi-narism, or Oneness, i do not know, but i do know that this is what I believe the Scripture asserts.