Dake Bible Discussion BoardMatthew 26:34 the rooster crows

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washedintheblood

Matthew 26:34 the rooster crows

Post by washedintheblood »

Matthew 26:34 KJV Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
A friend of ours insists that the word rooster or cock in this and similar verses of the New Testament should more accurately be translated 'town crier', because there were no roosters in Israel at the time of Christ. I find that hard to believe because where would the chickens in Israel come from without roosters?
I believe this to be incorrect because the translation of the Greek word G220 ἀλέκτωρ alektōr is cock or rooster.
I should mention that she is of the Hebraic Roots cult and says that the Hebrew translation would have been town crier. We just cannot seem to convince her that the NT was written in Greek and that to translate Greek into Hebrew and then into English for the purpose of manipulating scripture to fit their "renewed covenant" Hebraic Roots theology is erroneous.
My question is this. Were there roosters and chickens in Israel 2000 years ago?



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Re: Matthew 26:34 the rooster crows

Post by bibleman »

washedintheblood wrote:Matthew 26:34 KJV Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
A friend of ours insists that the word rooster or cock in this and similar verses of the New Testament should more accurately be translated 'town crier', because there were no roosters in Israel at the time of Christ. I find that hard to believe because where would the chickens in Israel come from without roosters?
I believe this to be incorrect because the translation of the Greek word G220 ἀλέκτωρ alektōr is cock or rooster.
I should mention that she is of the Hebraic Roots cult and says that the Hebrew translation would have been town crier. We just cannot seem to convince her that the NT was written in Greek and that to translate Greek into Hebrew and then into English for the purpose of manipulating scripture to fit their "renewed covenant" Hebraic Roots theology is erroneous.
My question is this. Were there roosters and chickens in Israel 2000 years ago?
Hi,

Yes, there were roosters and chickens in Israel 2000 years ago. Jesus spoke of them on several occasions.
COCK
(ἀλέκτωρ, āléktōr; Latin gallus): There is no reference in the Old Testament to domesticated poultry, which was probably first introduced into Judea after the Roman conquest. See CHICKEN.

The cock is several times mentioned in the New Testament and always with reference to its habit of crowing in eastern countries with such regularity as to be almost clocklike. The first full salute comes almost to the minute at half-past eleven, the second at half-past one, and the third at dawn. So uniformly do the cocks keep time and proclaim these three periods of night that we find cock-crowing mentioned as a regular division of time: "Watch therefore: for ye know not when the lord of the house cometh, whether at even, or at midnight, or at cockcrowing, or in the morning" (Mark 13:35).

Jesus had these same periods of night in mind when he warned Peter that he would betray Him. Matthew 26:34; Luke 22:34; John 13:38, give almost identical wording of the warning.

But in all his writing Mark was more explicit, more given to exact detail. Remembering the divisions of night as the cocks kept them, his record reads: "And Jesus saith unto him, Verily I say into thee, that thou today, even this night, before the cock crow twice, shalt deny me thrice" (Mark 14:30).

See CHICKEN. It is hardly necessary to add that the cocks crow at irregular intervals as well as at the times indicated, according to the time of the year and the phase of the moon (being more liable to crow during the night if the moon is at the full), or if a storm threatens, or there is any disturbance in their neighborhood.
— Gene Stratton-Porter, The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, ed. James Orr (Chicago: Howard-Severance Co., 1915), s.v. “COCK,” WORDsearch CROSS e-book.


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washedintheblood

Re: Matthew 26:34 the rooster crows

Post by washedintheblood »

Hi,

Yes, there were roosters and chickens in Israel 2000 years ago. Jesus spoke of them on several occasions.
COCK
(ἀλέκτωρ, āléktōr; Latin gallus): There is no reference in the Old Testament to domesticated poultry, which was probably first introduced into Judea after the Roman conquest. See CHICKEN.

The cock is several times mentioned in the New Testament and always with reference to its habit of crowing in eastern countries with such regularity as to be almost clocklike. The first full salute comes almost to the minute at half-past eleven, the second at half-past one, and the third at dawn. So uniformly do the cocks keep time and proclaim these three periods of night that we find cock-crowing mentioned as a regular division of time: "Watch therefore: for ye know not when the lord of the house cometh, whether at even, or at midnight, or at cockcrowing, or in the morning" (Mark 13:35).

Jesus had these same periods of night in mind when he warned Peter that he would betray Him. Matthew 26:34; Luke 22:34; John 13:38, give almost identical wording of the warning.

But in all his writing Mark was more explicit, more given to exact detail. Remembering the divisions of night as the cocks kept them, his record reads: "And Jesus saith unto him, Verily I say into thee, that thou today, even this night, before the cock crow twice, shalt deny me thrice" (Mark 14:30).

See CHICKEN. It is hardly necessary to add that the cocks crow at irregular intervals as well as at the times indicated, according to the time of the year and the phase of the moon (being more liable to crow during the night if the moon is at the full), or if a storm threatens, or there is any disturbance in their neighborhood.
— Gene Stratton-Porter, The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, ed. James Orr (Chicago: Howard-Severance Co., 1915), s.v. “COCK,” WORDsearch CROSS e-book.
[/quote]

Thanks, that's pretty interesting.



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Re: Matthew 26:34 the rooster crows

Post by macca »

What came first ??? the rooster or the chicken?



Ray

Re: Matthew 26:34 the rooster crows

Post by Ray »

Seems to me JESUS always used things the people of that time and area were well accustomed to when making a point.

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a HEN gathereth her CHICKENS under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.



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Re: Matthew 26:34 the rooster crows

Post by Ironman »

macca wrote:What came first ??? the rooster or the chicken?
Ha, the egg! +wink


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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Re: Matthew 26:34 the rooster crows

Post by Ironman »

Peter was a 'chicken.' When asked if he knew Jesus he cursed and denied that he knew Him.

"Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew." Matthew 26:74.

Praise God he repented.


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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Re: Matthew 26:34 the rooster crows

Post by macca »

If i had been in Peter's shoes??? i more than likely would have done the same :arrow:



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Re: Matthew 26:34 the rooster crows

Post by Ironman »

macca wrote:If i had been in Peter's shoes??? i more than likely would have done the same :arrow:
I dont know mate, I know it wasnt life threatening situation when I witnessed many of your public tests. And maybe Peter, like it was only a damsel who confronted him; "Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee." (Matt.26:69), if he had said Yea'h, I knew Him! she may have told others and he may have only recieved a good scourging, if they even found him again, who knows, but I have seen you stand up to multiple demon posessed and led man for hours and on a daily basis without flinching, and they weren't aussie damsels!


Galatians 4: 16, Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

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Re: Matthew 26:34 the rooster crows

Post by macca »

Thanks for the kind words Haz, i was thinking along the lines of that was before Peter was baptised in the Holy Spirit and completly transformed by the power of God in his life..
I see a parallel there with my own experience.. Scared and churchy defencive, then all out confidence in the knowdge that Jesus is alive and well and everything He did and said is fact and worth standing up for.



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